Hi I am a novice looking to build my own BassAmp set up (Preamp-Eq-PowerAmp) I was wondering if the Bass using a specialized or a standard (read Universal) preamp? And if so any specs / circuits would be greatly appreciated – ChrisW

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> Hi I am a novice looking to build my own BassAmp set up (Preamp-Eq-PowerAmp) > I was wondering if the Bass using a specialized or a standard (read > Universal) preamp? > And if so any specs / circuits would be greatly appreciated > – ChrisW

Here’s the first circuit that popped in my head: http://www.drtube.com/schematics/ampeg/svtpre-jp.gif

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here is an example rig i built: furman bass preamp w/ biamp output dbx compressor limiter macintosh 2205 power amp 1X EVM 15" speaker 1XEVM 10" speaker you can get the cabinet plans from EV or JBL, etc… biamp your bass, it kicks ass. a macintosh power amp wont hurt either. too bad they stopped making real ampeg SVT’s.

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>Hi I am a novice looking to build my own BassAmp set up (Preamp-Eq-PowerAmp) >I was wondering if the Bass using a specialized or a standard (read >Universal) preamp? >And if so any specs / circuits would be greatly appreciated

There is no "universal" preamp I’m aware of. All are designed for specific input and output levels and impedances for the particular application. That said, it isn’t rocket science the dynamics of the electric bass will give you more trouble than anything else, you’ll need a ton of headroom. Alembic did very well simply copying the front end of a Fender Showman guitar amp for their preamp.  There are a lot of schematics out on the internets, use google and study and compare as many as you can find until you’ve got some familiarity with different designs and how they work. All this stuff is modular, so looking at the preamp section of a bass amp is very valid. Look at the things you like the sound of and steal liberally. Ron

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi I am a novice looking to build my own BassAmp set up (Preamp-Eq-PowerAmp) >I was wondering if the Bass using a specialized or a standard (read >Universal) preamp? >And if so any specs / circuits would be greatly appreciated > There is no "universal" preamp I’m aware of. All are designed for specific input > and output levels and impedances for the particular application. > That said, it isn’t rocket science the dynamics of the electric bass will give > you more trouble than anything else, you’ll need a ton of headroom. > Alembic did very well simply copying the front end of a Fender Showman guitar > amp for their preamp.  There are a lot of schematics out on the internets, use > google and study and compare as many as you can find until you’ve got some > familiarity with different designs and how they work. > All this stuff is modular, so looking at the preamp section of a bass amp is > very valid. Look at the things you like the sound of and steal liberally. > Ron

"Steal liberally"? So it’s ok to be liberal and a thief? Still smearing liberals, I see. And thievery is sanctioned by you, eh? You fraudulent capitalist money-grubbing pighead.

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I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good job for me). I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic 30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that picky. Opinions/recommendations on these two amps? Thanks Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a > blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs > are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play > indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, > an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find > an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is > an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good > job for me). > I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long > period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little > crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. > I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic > 30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for > about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus > deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. > I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube > with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that > picky. > Opinions/recommendations on these two amps? > Thanks > Bob

You’ll need to also factor in amp repairs. Repairing a Blues Junior is not much of a time consumption and requires very few components. However the Classic 30 is a technician’s nightmare, so if you prefer that to have it over the Blues Junior, realize it might actually be less expensive to simply re-buy a Classic 30 whenever your first one breaks down. Most guitar amps only require 2 hours of labor maximum, but certain amps are constructed in such a way that they are totally service unfriendly and essentially a disposable shitbox. I won’t refuse to work on those amps, but I have to charge for every single minute of mental anguish it takes to repair a Classic 30 (BTW, number one on my shit list) which can end up costing from half to more than the price of a new replacement amp. So one must really have to have a lotta love for an amp like that if they want me to work on it. Ed Sonic Surgery New Orleans Earth

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> Most guitar amps only require 2 hours of labor maximum, but certain > amps are constructed in such a way that they are totally service unfriendly > and essentially a disposable shitbox. I won’t refuse to work on those > amps, but I have to charge for every single minute of mental anguish > it takes to repair a Classic 30 (BTW, number one on my shit list) > which can end up costing from half to more than the price of a new > replacement amp. So one must really have to have a lotta love for > an amp like that if they want me to work on it.

Nice post Ellie. When yer on, yer on. The poster might also want to consider finding a used Classic 30, particularly one that has been repaired by a competent tech, thus end-running the service issue, at least a little bit. Chuck

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Most guitar amps only require 2 hours of labor maximum, but certain > amps are constructed in such a way that they are totally service unfriendly > and essentially a disposable shitbox. I won’t refuse to work on those > amps, but I have to charge for every single minute of mental anguish > it takes to repair a Classic 30 (BTW, number one on my shit list) > which can end up costing from half to more than the price of a new > replacement amp. So one must really have to have a lotta love for > an amp like that if they want me to work on it. > Nice post Ellie. When yer on, yer on. > The poster might also want to consider finding a used Classic 30, > particularly one that has been repaired by a competent tech, thus > end-running the service issue, at least a little bit. > Chuck

I would agree that the Peavey is service unfriendly but it is not much worse than most modern amps. I removed the circuit board on a classic 30 to replace the channel select switch and had it back together and playing again in less than 1 hour

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a >blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs >are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play >indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, >an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find >an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is >an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good >job for me). >I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long >period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little >crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. >I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic >30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for >about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus >deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. >I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube >with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that >picky. >Opinions/recommendations on these two amps? >Thanks >Bob

I have a Blues Jr and my son has a Classic 30. Both are good but the Classic has a separate clean and gain channel. The Blues Jr has a fat switch. Both sound good but the Peavey is a bit more versatile, obviously more powerful. The only way you will get real crunch from the Fender is by using liberal amounts of pedal. It does have decent break up since it is only 15 watts. Not a lot of gain though. You might want to consider going to a Fender Blues Deluxe or Deville with 40 watts. Another option is a Traynor YCV40 although that is also service unfriendly IMHO. — Bob Mann 85 K100RS (traded for…) 04 FXD Stage 1(traded for…) 04 FLHTCUI 95" Stage 3

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Bob skrev: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a > blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs > are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play > indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, > an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find > an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is > an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good > job for me). > I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long > period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little > crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. > I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic > 30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for > about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus > deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. > I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube > with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that > picky.

Have you tried the Laney VC30? I bought one some 6 months ago, after trying i.a. the Classic 30. I found that the VC30 sounded much better for my music style – 60s rock and instrumentals. You may also want to try the Laney VC15. Klas

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record the same song twice, once with the PV, once with the fender. now listen to playback. even an inexperienced listener will choose the fender as the better sounding amp-its a no brainer. as far as outdoor venues are concerned neither of the above has the balls without being mic’d into a backline. so if you always have sound reinforcement, go for it. if you are caught without sound reinforcement, you need a much bigger amp for outdoors. you also owe it to your self to try bogner, eggnator, marshall, etc… these cost more but are  long term satisfaction leaders. and if you spent more money one one of these you would throw the distortion pedals away, cause you would not want them anymore. your fake ampeg is not heavy enough to make a good boat anchor, but they do make excellent artificial reefs; fetch a handsome price as scrap metal.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Most guitar amps only require 2 hours of labor maximum, but certain >> amps are constructed in such a way that they are totally service unfriendly >> and essentially a disposable shitbox. I won’t refuse to work on those >> amps, but I have to charge for every single minute of mental anguish >> it takes to repair a Classic 30 (BTW, number one on my shit list) >> which can end up costing from half to more than the price of a new >> replacement amp. So one must really have to have a lotta love for >> an amp like that if they want me to work on it. > Nice post Ellie. When yer on, yer on. > The poster might also want to consider finding a used Classic 30, > particularly one that has been repaired by a competent tech, thus > end-running the service issue, at least a little bit. > Chuck > I would agree that the Peavey is service unfriendly but it is not much > worse than most modern amps. I removed the circuit board on a classic 30 > to replace the channel select switch and had it back together and > playing again in less than 1 hour

Well sure, if you know the specific cause of the problem and exactly where it is. But if you need to do some serious troubleshooting to locate the problem, once you have the thing all apart, which you need to do in order to probe it, you can’t power it up in order to read volts or scope the signal. So you have to check it cold for opens or intermittence or other malfunctions, which means you have to partially put it back together again to power it up to test it and most likely do it all over again a few times until you find the culprit(s). Meanwhile from prying apart and squeezing back of the 3 PCBs while working on it, the leads that connect the 3 PCBs tend to break or certainly get weakened. The construction design is worst I’ve ever seen and the PV Delta Blues and their 5150 Combo amp have the same lame construction design. That’s not to say that their sounds suck or they are totally unreliable, it’s just that they are a frickin’ pain in the arse to troubleshoot and it’s not the fault of the tech if the repair bill is huge. Ed SS

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a >blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs >are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play >indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, >an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find >an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is >an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good >job for me). >I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long >period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little >crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. >I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic >30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for >about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus >deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. >I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube >with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that >picky. >Opinions/recommendations on these two amps? >Thanks >Bob > I have a Blues Jr and my son has a Classic 30. > Both are good but the Classic has a separate clean and gain channel. > The Blues Jr has a fat switch. > Both sound good but the Peavey is a bit more versatile, obviously more > powerful. > The only way you will get real crunch from the Fender is by using > liberal amounts of pedal. It does have decent break up since it is > only 15 watts. Not a lot of gain though. > You might want to consider going to a Fender Blues Deluxe or Deville > with 40 watts. > Another option is a Traynor YCV40 although that is also service > unfriendly IMHO.

I also think that the Peavey is a bit more versatile.  How ’bout watching the used market and grabbing the best deal as it comes up?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a > blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs > are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play > indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, > an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find > an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is > an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good > job for me). > I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long > period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little > crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. > I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic > 30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for > about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus > deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. > I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube > with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that > picky. > Opinions/recommendations on these two amps? > Thanks > Bob

A 15 watt tube amp does not have much headroom. Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a > blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs > are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play > indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, > an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find > an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is > an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good > job for me). > I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long > period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little > crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. > I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic > 30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for > about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus > deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. > I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube > with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that > picky. > Opinions/recommendations on these two amps?

I have a Blues Junior and, while it’s a pretty cool amp, I don’t know if it’s going to cut it for gigs if you’re looking for something with a decent of headroom.  The amp does get pretty loud, but it’s not going to have enough power if you’re looking for sparkling clean tones depending on how loud the stage volume of your band is. OTOH, I attended a backyard show at Pat Dinizio’s house over the summer where he and Jim Babjak and some other guys played a bunch of Smithereen’s songs and Babjak seemed to have enough volume using a Blues Junior.  They were loud, but not obnoxious; the PA was mainly for vocals.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. I play in a > blues band and we (rarely) do bar/club gigs. The vast majority of our gigs > are outdoor events with sound/backline provided. However, when we do play > indoors, it’s usually a venue of 100-150 or so. I’m unloading a Laney TT50, > an ‘82 Fender (Rivera) Concert and a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and hoping to find > an all-purpose, lightweight amp for use on stage. My spare practice/amp is > an Ampeg J12T reissue (no boat anchor comparisons, please. It does a good > job for me). > I’ve used both the Classic 30 and the Blues Junior but not over a long > period of time. I am interested in decent overhead with just a little > crunch. Pedal-wise, I use a Boss BD-2 and occasionally go wireless. > I’m leaning toward the Blues Junior (size/weight) but still like the Classic > 30’s overall sound/tone as well. I did use a Peavey Delta Blues (1×15) for > about 2 years and liked the sound/tone of the amp. I can get a cost-plus > deal on either one of these amps so price really isn’t an issue. > I’m not interested in speaker replacement issues, tubes, etc. I’ll retube > with JJ’s regardless of what I buy and, speaker-wise, I’m just not that > picky. > Opinions/recommendations on these two amps? >I have a Blues Junior and, while it’s a pretty cool amp, I don’t know >if it’s going to cut it for gigs if you’re looking for something with a >decent of headroom.  The amp does get pretty loud, but it’s not going >to have enough power if you’re looking for sparkling clean tones >depending on how loud the stage volume of your band is. >OTOH, I attended a backyard show at Pat Dinizio’s house over the summer >where he and Jim Babjak and some other guys played a bunch of >Smithereen’s songs and Babjak seemed to have enough volume using a >Blues Junior.  They were loud, but not obnoxious; the PA was mainly for >vocals.

That sounds like a blast. Would’ve loved to have been. Smithereens are just one of my all time favorite bands. They were so very nearly huge. Ron

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>I have a Blues Junior and, while it’s a pretty cool amp, I don’t know >if it’s going to cut it for gigs if you’re looking for something with a >decent of headroom.  The amp does get pretty loud, but it’s not going >to have enough power if you’re looking for sparkling clean tones >depending on how loud the stage volume of your band is.

        Saying BJ and headroom in the same sentence is pushing it         a bit for the BJ.         With that said, I have played my souped up BJ (better power supply,         JJ’s and cap replacement) at gigs at the Knitting Factory in NY         and the Stone Pony in NJ over the past year.  Just gotta mike the thing.         The BJ was clean-ish at the KN gig.  Master was on 10 with the         Vol on 5 and my AnalogMan bi-comp.  Steely Dan-ish stuff.  A blues-clean         sound… Certainly not pristine.  For a bit more clean gain, I used         a Timmy (very toneful pedal btw).         I had it nice and dirty at the SP gig.  Eternity pedal with Xotic BB.         Not a bad OD sound with those pedals.  The trick is setting both         on low gain with the pedal volumes mid-level (tip from a fellow         non-politically posting AGA-er… two OD’s are indeed better than 1).         Sounds better with humbuckers than single-coils to my ears.         The updated power supply gives it a lot more headroom than the stock.         The good caps help a lot too.  Its still not Boogie-clean; but heck         the Boogie cost 5x the BJ.         The ‘makeover’ cost about $150 on top of $300 for a used BJ.           Worth it imho.  Bought the BJ originally from GC… traded in a         crappy POS Marshall ValveState (only thing good about the VS is         its lightweight).  Sales dude says kids will buy the Marshall VS         no matter how bad it sounded.         The BJ is a great rehearsal amp and when you mike it, its not bad for         a gig as long as your bandmates aren’t super loud.  For those gigs,         my Quiana or Bad Cat come out…         F

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> >>I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. > I also think that the Peavey is a bit more versatile.  How ’bout > watching the used market and grabbing the best deal as it comes up?

oh, it’s versatile alright, for scaring crows away from a corn patch.

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> >> Most guitar amps only require 2 hours of labor maximum, but certain >> amps are constructed in such a way that they are totally service unfriendly… > I would agree that the Peavey is service unfriendly but it is not much > worse than most modern amps. I removed the circuit board on a classic 30 > to replace the channel select switch and had it back together and > playing again in less than 1 hour

  should have taken it out to 1000 feet and sunk it.

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>>>> Most guitar amps only require 2 hours of labor maximum, but certain >>> amps are constructed in such a way that they are totally service unfriendly… > I would agree that the Peavey is service unfriendly but it is not much > worse than most modern amps. I removed the circuit board on a classic 30 > to replace the channel select switch and had it back together and > playing again in less than 1 hour >   should have taken it out to 1000 feet and sunk it.

I did and the shark threw it back up!

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> record the same song twice, once with the PV, once with the fender. > now listen to playback. even an inexperienced listener will choose > the fender as the better sounding amp-its a no brainer. > as far as outdoor venues are concerned neither of the above has > the balls without being mic’d into a backline. so if you always > have sound reinforcement, go for it. if you are caught without > sound reinforcement, you need a much bigger amp for outdoors. > you also owe it to your self to try bogner, eggnator, marshall, etc… > these cost more but are  long term satisfaction leaders. and if > you spent more money one one of these you would throw the > distortion pedals away, cause you would not want them anymore.

Which current production Marshall should he consider? Jochen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> your fake ampeg is not heavy enough to make a good boat anchor, > but they do make excellent artificial reefs; fetch a handsome price > as scrap metal.

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<snip> > OTOH, I attended a backyard show at Pat Dinizio’s house over the summer > where he and Jim Babjak and some other guys played a bunch of > Smithereen’s songs and Babjak seemed to have enough volume using a > Blues Junior.  They were loud, but not obnoxious; the PA was mainly for > vocals. > That sounds like a blast. Would’ve loved to have been. Smithereens are just one > of my all time favorite bands. They were so very nearly huge. > Ron

Dinizio *is* huge  But one the coolest guys I’ve ever gone bar hopping with… Gary Gerhart Gerhart Amplification

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>I’m looking at a Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Blues Junior. >I also think that the Peavey is a bit more versatile.  How ’bout >watching the used market and grabbing the best deal as it comes up? > oh, it’s versatile alright, for scaring crows away from a corn patch.

What, that one doesn’t spontaneously self combust?  What a disappointment.

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> record the same song twice, once with the PV, once with the fender. > now listen to playback.

*If* you can do this, it’s a good idea.  Not exactly the same as what you’d gert in a live situation, but often helpful.  > even an inexperienced listener will choose > the fender as the better sounding amp-its a no brainer.

Nonsense.  Different strokes for different folks. As for the rest, the guy clearly knows what he wants; he’s already *playing* these gigs.

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Thanks for the comment…and, yes, I’m already playing and looking to "downsize" but not to the point of sounding like crap. I do have previous experience with both of the amps I mentioned and was just looking for some info from guys who have the amps enough to have a (reasonably) good idea of long-term sound, performance and reliability issues. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> record the same song twice, once with the PV, once with the fender. > now listen to playback. > *If* you can do this, it’s a good idea.  Not exactly the same > as what you’d gert in a live situation, but often helpful. > even an inexperienced listener will choose > the fender as the better sounding amp-its a no brainer. > Nonsense.  Different strokes for different folks. > As for the rest, the guy clearly knows what he wants; he’s > already *playing* these gigs.

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2 spkrs 4 ohms in series  50 watts each= 8 ohms 100 w total power capability?  2 spkrs 16 ohms parallel 50 watts each = 8 ohms , does the power capability stay at 50 watts? any difference in sound? would appreciate any input.

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Any difference in sound? would appreciate any input.  >> From Gerald Weber:  >>  >> "Let’s say you have a 4 x 10 cab and your amp has a 2, 4 and 8ohm  >> impedence selector.  >>  >> 3 Possibilities;  >>  >> 1. Wire all four speakers in parallel = 2ohms  >>  >> 2. Wire in series/parallel and get 8ohms  >>  >> 3. Wire in parallel/series and get 8ohms  >>  >> All three are valid options.  >>  >> THE DIFFERENCE IN SOUND BETWEEN THEM IS RELATED TO INDUCTANCE.  >>  >> 1. Wire all four speakers in parallel = 2ohms =  >>    LEAST INDUCTANCE AND MOST HIGH END SPARKLE.  >> 2. Wire in series/parallel and get 8ohms…MORE BRANCH INDUCTANCE        THAN #3, BELOW. IT WILL BE LESS CLEAN W/ A SOFTER HIGH END.  >> 3. Wire in parallel/series and get 8ohms = A LITTLE CLEANER W/        CRISPER HIGHS THAN #2, ABOVE.  >> IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT FENDER ALWAYS WIRED THEIR SPEAKERS IN  >> PARALLEL TO GET THE LEAST INDUCTANCE AND THEREFORE, THE CLEANEST,  >> CRISPEST TONE, WHILE VOX AND MARSHALL USED SERIES OR SERIES PARALLEL  >> TO GET LESS CLEAN AND MORE GRIND…"  >>  >> Source: Tube Guitar Amplifier Essentials pg 128. I know. AGA is loaded with people who read a simple question then vomit up encylopedic non-sequiturs. When you call them on it, they usually go spastic and accuse others of any oddity that springs to the gelatinous semen sponge behind their low, 40 degree sloped foreheads. Gerald Weber rules. So does Dave Hunter. www.geocities.com/mvm55555

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> 2 spkrs 4 ohms in series  50 watts each= 8 ohms 100 w total power > capability? >  2 spkrs 16 ohms parallel 50 watts each = 8 ohms , does the power capability > stay at 50 watts?

100W > any difference in sound? would appreciate any input.

The main advantage to two 16 ohm in parallel is if one burns out, you are not left with an open circuit on your tube amp!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 2 spkrs 4 ohms in series  50 watts each= 8 ohms 100 w total power > capability? >  2 spkrs 16 ohms parallel 50 watts each = 8 ohms , does the power > capability > stay at 50 watts? > 100W > any difference in sound? would appreciate any input. > The main advantage to two 16 ohm in parallel is if one burns out, you > are not left with an open circuit on your tube amp!

Sound jim….TONE.

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>2 spkrs 4 ohms in series  50 watts each= 8 ohms 100 w total power >capability? > 2 spkrs 16 ohms parallel 50 watts each = 8 ohms , does the power capability >stay at 50 watts? >any difference in sound? would appreciate any input.

You’d have a real hard time telling the difference in sound between the two. Both will handle the same amount of power. -Dave

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>Any difference in sound? would appreciate any input. >> From Gerald Weber: >> "Let’s say you have a 4 x 10 cab and your amp has a 2, 4 and 8ohm >> impedence selector. >> 3 Possibilities; >> 1. Wire all four speakers in parallel = 2ohms

Not with 4 or 16 ohm speakers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> 2. Wire in series/parallel and get 8ohms >> 3. Wire in parallel/series and get 8ohms >> All three are valid options. >> THE DIFFERENCE IN SOUND BETWEEN THEM IS RELATED TO INDUCTANCE. >> 1. Wire all four speakers in parallel = 2ohms = >>    LEAST INDUCTANCE AND MOST HIGH END SPARKLE. >> 2. Wire in series/parallel and get 8ohms…MORE BRANCH INDUCTANCE >       THAN #3, BELOW. IT WILL BE LESS CLEAN W/ A SOFTER HIGH END. >> 3. Wire in parallel/series and get 8ohms = A LITTLE CLEANER W/ >       CRISPER HIGHS THAN #2, ABOVE. >> IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT FENDER ALWAYS WIRED THEIR SPEAKERS IN >> PARALLEL TO GET THE LEAST INDUCTANCE AND THEREFORE, THE CLEANEST, >> CRISPEST TONE, WHILE VOX AND MARSHALL USED SERIES OR SERIES PARALLEL >> TO GET LESS CLEAN AND MORE GRIND…" >> Source: Tube Guitar Amplifier Essentials pg 128. >I know. AGA is loaded with people who read a simple question then >vomit up encylopedic non-sequiturs. When you call them on it, they >usually go spastic and accuse others of any oddity that springs to >the gelatinous semen sponge behind their low, 40 degree sloped >foreheads. Gerald Weber rules. So does Dave Hunter. >www.geocities.com/mvm55555

-Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> 2 spkrs 4 ohms in series  50 watts each= 8 ohms 100 w total power >> capability? >>  2 spkrs 16 ohms parallel 50 watts each = 8 ohms , does the power >> capability >> stay at 50 watts? > 100W >> any difference in sound? would appreciate any input. > The main advantage to two 16 ohm in parallel is if one burns out, you > are not left with an open circuit on your tube amp! > Sound jim….TONE.

I know what he was asking.  While not relating to tone, the advantage that I posted was WORTH NOTING.

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Joe Bonamassa, Albert cummings,Mem Shannon,Aretha Franklin,James Brown, John Gorka, Jaco Pastorius, Charles Mingus, Aimee Mann, Natalie Merchant,Sara McLachlan, Jimi Hendrix, Mitch Mitchell, Jeff Beck, Walter Trout, Oscar Peterson, .38 Special,  The Black Crowes, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddly, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimmy Vaughn, Sarah Vaughn, U2, Fagen & Becker, Toad the Wet Sprocket, George Clinton, Bootsy Collins, Parliament, Maceo Parker, Al Green, Otis Rush, Coco Montoya, B.B King, Albert King, Freddie King, John Lee Hooker, Mike Bloomfield, Luther Alison,Bernard Alison, Little Milton, Robben Ford, Debbie Davies, Tommy Castro, Eric Johnson, Pearl Jam, Govt. Mule, Euge Groove, Prince, Big Head Todd & the Monsters, Tal Farlow, Joe Pass, Jeff Golub,Wes Montgomery, Oscar Peterson, Bruce Cockburn, Richard Elliott, Bruce Springsteen, The Verve, Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters, Peter Himmelman, Richie Sambora, Jack Hardy, Macy Gray, Yes, Gentle Giant, Carlos Santana, Joe Louis Walker, Sheryl Crow, Lou Reed, Frank Zappa, Joe Satriani, Seal, Keb ‘Mo, Marvin Gaye, Robert Cray,Bruce Hornsby, Shawn Colvin, Spin Doctors, Little Feat, Gordon Lightfoot, Stone Temple Pilots, Don Henley,Fiona Apple,Julia Fordham, Tom Petty,  Mellisa Etheridge, James Taylor, Chris Isaac, Carly Simon, INXS,Jean Luc Ponty, David Sanborn, Weather Report, Brand X, Miles Davis, Charlie "Bird" Parker, Passport,Larry Carlton, Pat Metheny

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Joe Bonamassa, Albert cummings,Mem Shannon,Aretha Franklin,James Brown, > John Gorka, Jaco Pastorius, Charles Mingus, Aimee Mann, Natalie > Merchant,Sara McLachlan, Jimi Hendrix, Mitch Mitchell, Jeff Beck, Walter > Trout, Oscar Peterson, .38 Special,  The Black Crowes, Chuck Berry, > Little Richard, Bo Diddly, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimmy Vaughn, Sarah > Vaughn, U2, Fagen & Becker, Toad the Wet Sprocket, George Clinton, > Bootsy Collins, Parliament, Maceo Parker, Al Green, Otis Rush, > Coco Montoya, B.B King, Albert King, Freddie King, John Lee Hooker, Mike > Bloomfield, Luther Alison,Bernard Alison, Little Milton, Robben Ford, > Debbie Davies, Tommy Castro, Eric Johnson, Pearl Jam, Govt. Mule, Euge > Groove, Prince, Big Head Todd & the Monsters, Tal Farlow, Joe Pass, Jeff > Golub,Wes Montgomery, Oscar Peterson, Bruce Cockburn, Richard Elliott, > Bruce Springsteen, The Verve, Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters, Peter Himmelman, > Richie Sambora, Jack Hardy, Macy Gray, Yes, Gentle Giant, Carlos > Santana, Joe Louis Walker, Sheryl Crow, Lou Reed, Frank Zappa, Joe > Satriani, Seal, Keb ‘Mo, Marvin Gaye, Robert Cray,Bruce Hornsby, Shawn > Colvin, Spin Doctors, Little Feat, Gordon Lightfoot, Stone Temple > Pilots, Don Henley,Fiona Apple,Julia Fordham, Tom Petty,  Mellisa > Etheridge, James Taylor, Chris Isaac, Carly Simon, INXS,Jean Luc Ponty, > David Sanborn, Weather Report, Brand X, Miles Davis, Charlie "Bird" > Parker, Passport,Larry Carlton, Pat Metheny

Nice handle… "On Topic". Oh the irony. And you would know the above because… You have added nicely to the waste land this group can be at times, sometimes more than others. I for one have benefited greatly from this group, even though you sometimes feel like you need a shower after you leave it. So I guess it’s like that old song says, "She is ugly, but she sure can cook!" Now be nice and bring something constructive to the table. But first go wash your hands! – DJ

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Joe Bonamassa, Albert cummings,Mem Shannon,Aretha Franklin,James Brown, > John Gorka, Jaco Pastorius, Charles Mingus, Aimee Mann, Natalie > Merchant,Sara McLachlan, Jimi Hendrix, Mitch Mitchell, Jeff Beck, Walter > Trout, Oscar Peterson, .38 Special,  The Black Crowes, Chuck Berry, > Little Richard, Bo Diddly, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimmy Vaughn, Sarah > Vaughn, U2, Fagen & Becker, Toad the Wet Sprocket, George Clinton, > Bootsy Collins, Parliament, Maceo Parker, Al Green, Otis Rush, > Coco Montoya, B.B King, Albert King, Freddie King, John Lee Hooker, Mike > Bloomfield, Luther Alison,Bernard Alison, Little Milton, Robben Ford, > Debbie Davies, Tommy Castro, Eric Johnson, Pearl Jam, Govt. Mule, Euge > Groove, Prince, Big Head Todd & the Monsters, Tal Farlow, Joe Pass, Jeff > Golub,Wes Montgomery, Oscar Peterson, Bruce Cockburn, Richard Elliott, > Bruce Springsteen, The Verve, Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters, Peter Himmelman, > Richie Sambora, Jack Hardy, Macy Gray, Yes, Gentle Giant, Carlos > Santana, Joe Louis Walker, Sheryl Crow, Lou Reed, Frank Zappa, Joe > Satriani, Seal, Keb ‘Mo, Marvin Gaye, Robert Cray,Bruce Hornsby, Shawn > Colvin, Spin Doctors, Little Feat, Gordon Lightfoot, Stone Temple > Pilots, Don Henley,Fiona Apple,Julia Fordham, Tom Petty,  Mellisa > Etheridge, James Taylor, Chris Isaac, Carly Simon, INXS,Jean Luc Ponty, > David Sanborn, Weather Report, Brand X, Miles Davis, Charlie "Bird" > Parker, Passport,Larry Carlton, Pat Metheny > Nice handle… "On Topic". > Oh the irony. > And you would know the above because… > You have added nicely to the waste land this group can be at times, > sometimes more than others. > I for one have benefited greatly from this group, even though you > sometimes feel like you need a shower after you leave it. > So I guess it’s like that old song says, "She is ugly, but she sure can > cook!" > Now be nice and bring something constructive to the table. > But first go wash your hands! > – DJ > My Gibson’s > 1991 Les Paul Custom > Pristine. Pawn Shop; 1998 $600 > Pickup: > Neck: Dimarzio Air Norton > Bridge: 498T Alnico magnet HB > Controls: > Two volume, two tone, > 3-way switch > Hardware: > Gold > Scale/Nut width: > 24 3/4" / 1.6875" > Fingerboard/Inlay: > 22 fret Ebony/Pearl Block > Neck shape: > 1959 Rounded Les Paul > Binding: > Body/Neck/Head > Bridge/Tailpiece: > Tune-o-matic/Stop Bar > Materials: > Maple Top, Mahogany Back, > Mahogany Neck > Finish: > Black > As the popularity of the electric blues (as championed by Eric Clapton and Michael Bloomfield) grew during the 1960s, Gibson reissued the Les Paul in 1968: > *LES PAUL CUSTOM 1968 REISSUE – single sharp cutaway mahogany body, multi-bound carved maple top, raised bound black pickguard, one piece mahogany neck, 22 small fret bound ebony fingerboard with pearl block inlay, tune-o-matic bridge/stop tailpiece, multi-bound peghead with pearl split diamond/logo inlay, no neck volute, 3 per side Grover tuners, gold hardware, 2 humbucker Pat. No. pickups, 2 volume/2 tone controls, 3 position switch. Available in Black finish. Mfd. 1968 only. > LES PAUL CUSTOM 1969 REISSUE (LPC-) [MVM] – similar to Les Paul Custom 1968 Reissue, except has 3 piece mahogany/maple body, 3 piece neck. Available in Alpine White (AW), Black, Cherry, Cherry Sunburst, Ebony (EB), Heritage Sunburst, Honeyburst, Natural, Tobacco Sunburst, Vintage Sunburst, Walnut, White, and Wine Red (WR) finishes. Mfr. 1969 to date. > 1959 ES-335 Dot Reissue (1986 New: $1000)  [MVM]: > This great Gibson guitar combines all of the unique qualities of both a solid body and a hollow body guitar. The solid center section along with the streamlined thinner hollowed chambers between the top and bottom, adds a new fullness and harmony that provide a spectacular sound. The double-cutaway design allows for greater fret access, along the fast, low action neck. This is truly another supreme achievement in a professional instrument

> What is more desirable, MOSFET or standard? > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794

Depends on how either are applied.

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> What is more desirable, MOSFET or standard?

Neither. Tubes is the only way to go. SS sucks hard.

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>Neither. Tubes is the only way to go. SS sucks hard.

Hate to tell ya, but a CORRECTLY designed SS device beats a cheap tube amp anytime.  We’re talking $/sound. I do prefer tube, but trouble is, no one today is designing/building a ‘CORRECT’ SS amp.  All the masses have to judge today is crap.  NO L5’s, no ‘Super Beatles’, no H|H Musicians..GMT.  Till folks started this "SS SUX" rap, they either played thru many and didn’t know, or they dumped some cheap 9vt crap effect in front of some Icon tube amp and got the same thing.  2days overseas tube stuff is only slightly better then the O/Seas SS stuff.. Today’s market of SS is mainly (thru mod amps/effects) IC/PC/WEE-WEE chips that have little if any musicale value.  GOOD SS never includes IC chips.  EVER… JJTj I am frolicsome, I am easy, Good tempered and free, And I don’t give a single pin’ me boys What the world thinks of me.

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>GOOD SS never includes IC chips.  EVER…

I was wrong, sorry…my bad.. The Moog Lab series that used cheap IC’s still, with great design, sounded great.. The H|H stuff was cheap 741 chips, that sounded good for some stupid, unknown, long buried reason..   JJTj

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> What is more desirable, MOSFET or standard? > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794

I’m no expert, but I do know that a lot of guys that design high end audio like MOSFET transistors. Something about them being more musical? I found this artical. http://www.livesoundint.com/archives/2001/julyaug/mosfet/mosfet.php What are you making now Plow? — Regards B.H. Brian’s Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm Brian’s Basement http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/6.htm

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>> What are you making now Plow? > Well I have an old SCS (Sound Code Systems) 350 watt per channel stereo > rack mount power amp (MOSFET)that someone wanted to buy off me to use for > a guitar rig using a couple 2×12 cabs. I was under the impression that > MOSFETs were warmer than bipolar transistors. I really didn’t want to sell > the thing and have this dude be unhappy with the sound as I have someone > interested in it as a PA amp. > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794

Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way? BH

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> What are you making now Plow? >> Well I have an old SCS (Sound Code Systems) 350 watt per channel stereo >> rack mount power amp (MOSFET)that someone wanted to buy off me to use >> for a guitar rig using a couple 2×12 cabs. I was under the impression >> that MOSFETs were warmer than bipolar transistors. I really didn’t want >> to sell the thing and have this dude be unhappy with the sound as I have >> someone interested in it as a PA amp. >> — >> Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 >> COOSN-266-06-25794 > Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar > types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to > shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way? > Yep I used it for awhile for a bass amp and it sounded great. Someone > actually gave it to me dead and the MOSFETs it used were discontinued. > I found suitable replacements off a private individual though. I used it > gigging weekends for maybe a year until I bought a used Crown Microtech > 1000 off some dude needing cash. However I never did played a regular > guitar thru it. This guy who wants it is also willing to buy an old > Digitec GSP-21 off me as a package. Guess I could haul it all over to his > house and hook it up and see if we can get a sound he likes. I can > remember playing the GSP-21 thru my PA gear here at home and it didn’t > sound too damn bad but just for practice. > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794

I think it’ll work. I’ve played through all kinds of weird shit myself. One things for sure, it’ll be loud enough : ) BH

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On stage EVH dumped his final sound into a H|H MOSFET poweramp (no longer made) Gave him 3-400 watts RMS a side.  The schematic shows just simple MOSFET stuff. EVEN when he used the PV stuff..he used the H|H.. MOSFET sounds ‘tube like’ and but holds up better on the road.  It was also all the rage back then. I tell ya, there are tricks with MOSFETS that can be done that would shame any current made tube amp. WITHIN it’s price range, and here is where MOSFET has an edge..2 day’s Tube stuff is way overpriced..or crap.. JJTj

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>Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar >types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to >shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way?

G/Dead.  Fender tube preamp stages & MacIntosh SS power amps..that HAD output tranz.  200 a side. JJTj

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>> I think it’ll work. I’ve played through all kinds of weird shit myself. > One things for sure, it’ll be loud enough : ) > Oh hell yes it will be loud. If I recall it’s 375 into 4 per side. Plus > MOSFET’s are more rugged than bipolar since the devices have a negative > temperature coefficient ie: not prone to thermal runaway. > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794

If doesn’t work out you can always use it to remove paint or break up concrete : ) The loudest amp I ever owned was a Marshall Major. Damn! that was a brutal amp. BH

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: : >GOOD SS never includes IC chips.  EVER… : : : I was wrong, sorry…my bad.. : : The Moog Lab series that used cheap IC’s : still, with great design, sounded great.. : : The H|H stuff was cheap 741 chips, that sounded : good for some stupid, unknown, long buried reason.. : : : JJTj .  I’m nearly finished with an SS amp design that uses IC’s. In the past, I’ve always used discretes for amp design and opamps for FX designs.  I hope within the next month to post some sound clips of this new opamp based guitar amp. I was supposed to finish it about 3 months ago. Each time I was about to wrap it up, I’d bumble on something new that warranted investigation. In fact, at this point, I’m getting a little tired of chancing upon new phenomena.  I’m starting to feel like Forest Gump when he had to go visit the President for the third frikken time.  I shouldn’t complain being that as a result, the amp just keeps sounding better and better. But damn, at this point the amps sounding so good and I’ve spent sooo much energy on this project, should I perchance to bumble on anything new again, it’s just going to have to wait until the next design.  Anyway, my point is that this opamp ( IC) based design may well settle the question for once and for all the debate between IC and discrete.  At least this particular design is beating my past discrete designs which I thought were nearly unbeatable.  After all, what is an opamp anyway except a bunch of discrete transistors sharing the same substrate. Of course, the dielectric constant of the substrate and the IC packaging can all come into play insofar as opamp performance goes.  Such is why a lot of chip manufacturers are looking for new materials with improved dielectric properties.  Some are looking into ways to reduce dielectric parasitics by suspending the IC guts in as much dead air space as possible, or even in a vacuum.  I’m looking forward to the next generation of "improved performance" IC’s  I will say this about the opamp based amp design that I’m about to finish, although I won’t say which opamp I’m using, I will say that it’s certainly not your typical garden variety opamp.

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: : On stage EVH dumped his final sound into : a H|H MOSFET poweramp (no longer made) : : Gave him 3-400 watts RMS a side.  The : schematic shows just simple MOSFET stuff. : : EVEN when he used the PV stuff..he used the H|H.. : : MOSFET sounds ‘tube like’ and but holds up better : on the road.  It was also all the rage back then. : : I tell ya, there are tricks with MOSFETS that can : be done that would shame any current made tube amp. : : WITHIN it’s price range, and here is where MOSFET has : an edge..2 day’s Tube stuff is way overpriced..or crap.. : : JJTj  Well, I gotta say, despite some unduring myths about reliability issues with mosfets, a friend of mine has been using a Pearce G2 that I converted the output section to mosfets for over twenty years. And he gigs an average of 3-4 night/week.  Had a look at it recently. Expected I’d need to rebias it or something, but nope. It checked out rock solid biased up to within 2 % of where I set it over twenty years ago.  FWIW, I designed what I thought was a rather clever bias scheme with relatively high impedance biasing resistors and the drive signals coupled low impedance-wize through capacitors. The idea being  that should any of the mosfets fail, this scheme localizes their failures thus isolating and protecting the pre-drive circuitry.  Also, each of the 4 mosfets had their own individual bias control which I adjusted with the amp operating at the point where the mosfets were at peak power dissipation. In this manner, the 4 mosfets at the peak stress point are sharing the load equally.

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: : >Neither. Tubes is the only way to go. SS sucks hard. : > : : : : Hate to tell ya, but a CORRECTLY designed SS device : beats a cheap tube amp anytime.  We’re talking $/sound. : : I do prefer tube, but trouble is, no one today : is designing/building a ‘CORRECT’ SS amp.  Well, I do believe I am designing a so called "correct" SS amp being that my curent design is a real tone monster that will put a lot of tube amps to shame. Probably there are other SS designers out there that are doing good stuff too. So there *are* people designing good SS guitar  amps.  However, in my case, there’s a good chance that I’ll never sell any of my designs ( well, better designs that is)  to the GP since it’s easier to do one off custom jobs for select people rather than worry about the headaches of running a business and protecting intellectual property. Perhaps that’s the way it is for some other SS designers too. Dunno. : All the : masses have to judge today is crap.  NO L5’s, no : ‘Super Beatles’, no H|H Musicians..GMT.  Till folks : started this "SS SUX" rap, they either played thru : many and didn’t know, or they dumped some cheap : 9vt crap effect in front of some Icon tube amp : and got the same thing.  2days overseas tube stuff : is only slightly better then the O/Seas SS stuff.. : : Today’s market of SS is mainly (thru mod amps/effects) : IC/PC/WEE-WEE chips that have little if any musicale : value.  GOOD SS never includes IC chips.  EVER… : : : JJTj : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : I am frolicsome, I am easy, : Good tempered and free, : And I don’t give a single pin’ me boys : What the world thinks of me.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  Well, I do believe I am designing a so called > "correct" SS amp being that my curent design > is a real tone monster that will put a lot of tube > amps to shame. Probably there are other SS > designers out there that are doing good stuff too. > So there *are* people designing good SS guitar >  amps. >  However, in my case, there’s a good chance > that I’ll never sell any of my designs > ( well, better designs that is)  to the GP > since it’s easier to do one off custom jobs for > select people rather than worry about the > headaches of running a business and protecting > intellectual property. Perhaps that’s the way it > is for some other SS designers too. Dunno.

If you are a SS designer, you probably have an idea or have heard about the principle of this hybrid desing (12AT7 + MOSFETS) (I guess more like a valve-amp, but just guessing…): http://www.randallamplifiers.com/about/news/valvedynamic.asp –Risto

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>If you are a SS designer, you probably have an idea or have heard about the >principle >of this hybrid desing (12AT7 + MOSFETS) (I guess more like a valve-amp, but >just guessing…):

U have to be kidding.  MOSFETs were adapted to tubes in the OLD FART DAYS with the NYAL "Super-It".  I bought out the NYAL stash of MOSFETs back then from G/Kaye (sp?) who is the ICON of those MOSCODE amps, and was blessed to work under J Futterman and his OTL amps.  AWESOME bass player, BTW.. "..New York Audio Labs.."   (NYAL) Put me up in his house while we did the deed, still got the paperwork around somewhere.  GKaye is one class act..a pro.. It’s just that NOW MOSFETs have the specs to mold with tubes, but then again, I got an Infinity Hybrid power amp that blended tubes n ’sistors.  Luxman did it too. "..Learn or be sold to.." HIRE me, I’m for sale… JJTj

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: : > : > : >  Well, I do believe I am designing a so called : > "correct" SS amp being that my curent design : > is a real tone monster that will put a lot of tube : > amps to shame. Probably there are other SS : > designers out there that are doing good stuff too. : > So there *are* people designing good SS guitar : >  amps. : >  However, in my case, there’s a good chance : > that I’ll never sell any of my designs : > ( well, better designs that is)  to the GP : > since it’s easier to do one off custom jobs for : > select people rather than worry about the : > headaches of running a business and protecting : > intellectual property. Perhaps that’s the way it : > is for some other SS designers too. Dunno. : > : If you are a SS designer, you probably have an idea or have heard about the : principle : of this hybrid desing (12AT7 + MOSFETS) (I guess more like a valve-amp, but : just guessing…): : http://www.randallamplifiers.com/about/news/valvedynamic.asp : : –Risto  Interesting read but insofar as the principle goes, they aren’t saying what they did so I have no idea what their principle is  It seems that their primary goal is to make a SS amp (or hybrid SS amp) sound like a tube amp.  My approach was similar at one time, but it’s a bit different now.  My goal now is to simply try to make an SS amp sound as good as it can and not be predjudiced or bias and possibly limited by assuming that tube amps are necessarily the ultimate pinnacle or direction SS should go.  As a result, the design I’m currently working on in some ways IMHO surpasses tube amps. At least insofar as clean rythm tones go, this design seems to have a degree of depth and tightness that I’ve never heard from a tube amp. So it may just well turn out that there are some things that SS does better and likewise some things that tubes do better. But I suppose there’s really no point in comparing as it’s more or less an apples and oranges thing. Apples are good and oranges are good. Viva la differance.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar >types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to >shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way? > G/Dead.  Fender tube preamp stages & MacIntosh SS > power amps..that HAD output tranz.  200 a side. > JJTj

I’m sure they liked the reliability of SS power amps? BH

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Dumble Amplifiers – Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaDumble musical instrument amplifiers are built by hand in very limited numbers by Howard Alexander Dumble of California. The amplifiers are famed for their … en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumble_Amplifiers Doctorzrati Alexander Dumble has also built amps for Michael. It’s one thing to buy a used Dumble, but to have one built for you by Mr. Dumble says a lot in my book… www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/doctorz88.html page 3It’s almost impossible to find a Dumble amplifier now even if you are willing to pay the $12000 to $14000 it will cost. Alexander Dumble has been making… www.ultrasoundrehearsal.com/rental.htm Backstage Lounge – Carlos Santana No. Early this year, I discovered a phenomenal amplifier made by Alexander Dumble. I

"LEGENDARY ARTIST’S FIRST INSTRUMENTAL ALBUM FEATURES MEMBERS OF PEARL JAM, THE ROLLING STONES, AND THE SHADOWS, AS WELL AS WARREN HAYNES AND OTHERS. [snip] To help bring his childhood musical dream to life, Frampton invited Rolling Stones Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman to play on "Cornerstones"; original Shadows members Hank Marvin and Brian Bennett to perform with him on "My Cup of Tea"; and Pearl Jam’s Mike McCready and Matt Cameron join him for a cover of Soundgarden’s "Black Hole Sun" and the original "Blowin’ Smoke." Fingerprints also reveals Frampton’s penchant for American roots music, especially on "Blooze," featuring Warren Haynes on slide guitar, and "Double Nickels" featuring Nashville virtuoso Paul Franklin on pedal steel. Frampton trades licks with British saxophone legend Courtney Pine on the blues rocker "Boot It Up." He and guitarist/co-producer Gordon Kennedy play harmonizing electric guitars on "Float," another album highlight. Another guitar virtuoso, John Jorgenson, joins Frampton on the Django Reinhardt-style "Souvenirs De Nos Phres." [snip] This comes from Amazon’s blurb on Frampton’s new album, Fingerprints, apparently he’s been been busy making good music for some time, although I don’t suppose he’ll ever shake off that pretty-boy pop-star image he was saddled with after leaving Humble Pie.  The clips I’ve heard sound like Jeff Beck meets solo Leslie West, not such a bad thing.  Nice to see an old cat can still outshine all these young pups with the tattoos on their faces and their lips chained to their ears.  ;^)

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Freep, your jerking off to him doesn’t help this accomplished player. Shhh-

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An odd thing happened at band practice today.  When I turned my bass amp on it tripped the house breaker.  The PA, guitar and keyboard amps were all on, but we were not playing.  I reset the breaker and tried it again.  I tripped the breaker again!  The odd thing is that if I reset the breaker with my bass amp on, it did not trip the breaker. Any ideas?  BTW, it is a Carvin solid state R1000 bass amp. -DA

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> An odd thing happened at band practice today.  When I turned my bass amp > on it tripped the house breaker.  The PA, guitar and keyboard amps were > all on, but we were not playing.  I reset the breaker and tried it again. > I tripped the breaker again!  The odd thing is that if I reset the breaker > with my bass amp on, it did not trip the breaker. > Any ideas?  BTW, it is a Carvin solid state R1000 bass amp. > -DA

Maybe Dave Curtis the licensed electrician will be along shortly, but let’s just look at this in simple terms. The breaker is designed to trip when the current draw exceeds it’s rating. I think, like a slow blow fuse, it will tolerate a limited amount of surge current.  What’s going on?  One is that there is probably a momentary surge when you power up and many appliances do this.  The other is that the you’ve already got a load on the circuit because everyone else is plugged in and powered up, so that surge is pushing the breaker past its capacity.  (There is always a possibility that the breaker is defective, but I seriously doubt that because the manufacturers have too much liability to allow degradation of the product over long term use, so let’s just dismiss this thought now.) When you’ve got the breaker in the off position, and all amps are in the power-on position, when you reset the breaker, the total surge is within the breaker’s tolerance.  I’ll hypothesize that the breaker is cold when you do this, so it holds the load.  OTOH, when you are the last one powered up, the breaker is already hot and more likely to trip. What you should probably do is to calculate how much load you have on the circuit.  Each appliance (amp) will draw so much current.  It’s a matter of simply adding them all up.  Because each has a properly rated fuse, you should assume that the amp operates slightly below the fuse rating.  Add up all the fuses and deduct a small allowance, maybe 10%.  I think you will find that you have very close to 15A running on your 15A circuit (or 20A, whatever).  When you determine this (if you are over about 13.5A/15A), then you will know that you need to find another circuit to supply power because the one you are using is at or near full capacity. Long story, short: you are overloading the circuit.  That is the reason the breaker trips.  Do what’s required so you don’t burn the house down. Regards, Phil

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>An odd thing happened at band practice today.  When I turned my bass amp on >it tripped the house breaker.  The PA, guitar and keyboard amps were all on, >but we were not playing.  I reset the breaker and tried it again.  I tripped >the breaker again!  The odd thing is that if I reset the breaker with my >bass amp on, it did not trip the breaker. >Any ideas?  BTW, it is a Carvin solid state R1000 bass amp. >-DA

Ever seen the Green Acres show where Oliver had this set-up to determine what could be plugged in and used at the same time?  There was this clipboard on the wall, with all the power cords and plugs clipped to it, and a list of what you could plug in. Great show!  Lisa blew a lot of fuses that episode. We can’t run our microwave and toaster at the same time without tripping the circuit breaker.  Wiring from ‘58. Personally, I’d just find an outlet that’s on a different circuit breaker, and plug the bass amp into that. Pete

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> We can’t run our microwave and toaster at the same time without > tripping the circuit breaker.  Wiring from ‘58.

We had our house totally rewired last year, outlets everywhere we wanted them, data cable too, new light fixtures in just the right locations, made a huge difference in terms of convenience and livability, not to mention safety.  And now we can plug in every appliance we own without fear.  Funny thing was the electrician and his helpers were all musicians who play together on weekends (well, the electrician is a drummer, pretty close) and on their lunch breaks would be talking bass amps and PAs and stuff.  I pity the club owner who tells them his whacked-out wiring is up to code, gonna be a building inspector there first thing Monday morning.  ;^)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We can’t run our microwave and toaster at the same time without > tripping the circuit breaker.  Wiring from ‘58. >We had our house totally rewired last year, outlets everywhere we wanted >them, data cable too, new light fixtures in just the right locations, made a >huge difference in terms of convenience and livability, not to mention >safety.  And now we can plug in every appliance we own without fear.  Funny >thing was the electrician and his helpers were all musicians who play >together on weekends (well, the electrician is a drummer, pretty close) and >on their lunch breaks would be talking bass amps and PAs and stuff.  I pity >the club owner who tells them his whacked-out wiring is up to code, gonna be >a building inspector there first thing Monday morning.  ;^)

Oh my God!!!  Your electrician was a drummer??? This one cracked me up: "Did you hear about the bass player who locked his keys in the car? He had to break a window to get the drummer out!" http://gimp137.tripod.com/myfun.com/id18.html

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>>We can’t run our microwave and toaster at the same time without >tripping the circuit breaker.  Wiring from ‘58.

We have one particular home, wiring is all original from ‘54… no problems on existing circuits… BUT… It doesn’t cost THAT much to get a circuit or too added for your convenience/safety… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We had our house totally rewired last year, outlets everywhere we wanted > them, data cable too, new light fixtures in just the right locations, made a > huge difference in terms of convenience and livability, not to mention > safety.  And now we can plug in every appliance we own without fear.  Funny > thing was the electrician and his helpers were all musicians who play > together on weekends (well, the electrician is a drummer, pretty close) and > on their lunch breaks would be talking bass amps and PAs and stuff.  I pity > the club owner who tells them his whacked-out wiring is up to code, gonna be > a building inspector there first thing Monday morning.  ;^)

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I’ve become the owner of last resort of a Guild Maverick bass combo. chassis says rated at 20watts. Uses 2 7591’s push pull in output. I’m working on tracing out a schematic for it since I couldn’t find anything on the net. Any opinions of these tubes vs the more ’standard’ Guitar amp tubes and guild amps in general? got some new tubes on the way so I’ll get to play through it soon.. One tube was blown and it needed some work to get it safe to power up. soon as I get a chance I’ll post the schematic. TIA — {rtf1ansiansicpg1252deff0deflang1033{fonttbl{f0fswissfcharset0 Arial;}} {*generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}viewkind4uc1pardf0fs20 ///Not A Pro…par Just another 40something Rocker….par A Wife, 2 Kids and a Day Job…..par On A Quest for Tone…..par – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -}

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> I’ve become the owner of last resort of a Guild Maverick bass combo. > chassis says rated at 20watts. Uses 2 7591’s push pull in output. I’m > working on tracing out a schematic for it since I couldn’t find anything > on the net. Any opinions of these tubes vs the more ’standard’ Guitar amp > tubes and guild amps in general? got some new tubes on the way so I’ll get > to play through it soon.. One tube was blown and it needed some work to > get it safe to power up. soon as I get a chance I’ll post the schematic. > TIA > —

Nothing wrong, per se, with 7591’s for a guitar amp.  But at 20 watts, it seems like you are barely waking them up!  You want to think about modifying the amp for 6V6’s?. Do a little maintenance on it and find out how many watts it really is.

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I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of the TSL602  are having the same problem. Thanks, and hope to hear from you. — Adam

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for > years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo > amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. > I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band > playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for > gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut > through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great > for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). > Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall > Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s > another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — > both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro > Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my > TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) > and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. > I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is > there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of > my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? > And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume > boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice > would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of > the TSL602  are having the same problem. > Thanks, and hope to hear from you. > — Adam

All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp down. Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for > years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo > amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. > I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band > playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for > gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut > through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great > for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). > Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall > Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s > another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — > both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro > Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my > TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) > and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. > I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is > there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of > my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? > And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume > boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice > would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of > the TSL602  are having the same problem. > Thanks, and hope to hear from you. > — Adam > All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If > you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter > signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. > Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp > down. > Chris

Aren’t you the guy who almost _always_ comes out in favor of deafening amp volume levels just to achieve breakup into saturation vs. utilization of the 12AX7/ECC83 tube and circuitry in say, a Radial Engineering Tonebone (or, the no-tube killer overdrive provided by boxes like Voodoo’s Sparkle Drive or Fulltone USA’s Full Drive 2)? Something tells me that you’re no stranger to the sentence; "Hey man,…uhhh look -couldja just turn it down a little?" For some odd reason, there’s an entire camp of guys who view the brilliant innovations in stomp box distortion as; "Ugh! Fire! Wheel! Me like raw. Me walk!". Meanwhile, a ton of other musicians grow hot silently and slowly when they find themselves playing with a guy from planet bloody eardrum, all the while thinking…"…man -this fucking guy. It’s ALL about HIM…" And yet another band breaks up with sour feelings…and one guy NEVER learns. Why, he COULDN’T be wrong!!!! Thus he goes on selling his position to anyone with two ears and a set of nostrils*. It’s honestly funny on some level. Thoughts on the topic? Regards, mvm * "…doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, each time…"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >> years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >> amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >> I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >> playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >> gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >> through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >> for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >> Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >> Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >> another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >> both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >> Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >> TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >> and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >> I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >> there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >> my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >> And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >> boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >> would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >> the TSL602  are having the same problem. >> Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >> — Adam > All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If > you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter > signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. > Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp > down. > Chris > Aren’t you the guy who almost _always_ comes out in favor of deafening > amp volume levels just to achieve breakup into saturation vs. > utilization of the 12AX7/ECC83 tube and circuitry in say, a Radial > Engineering Tonebone (or, the no-tube killer overdrive provided by boxes > like Voodoo’s Sparkle Drive or Fulltone USA’s Full Drive 2)? > Something tells me that you’re no stranger to the sentence; > "Hey man,…uhhh look -couldja just turn it down a little?" > For some odd reason, there’s an entire camp of guys who view the > brilliant innovations in stomp box distortion as; > "Ugh! Fire! Wheel! Me like raw. Me walk!". > Meanwhile, a ton of other musicians grow hot silently and slowly when > they find themselves playing with a guy from planet bloody eardrum, all > the while thinking…"…man -this fucking guy. It’s ALL about HIM…" > And yet another band breaks up with sour feelings…and one guy > NEVER learns. Why, he COULDN’T be wrong!!!! Thus he goes on selling > his position to anyone with two ears and a set of nostrils*. > It’s honestly funny on some level. Thoughts on the topic? > Regards, > mvm > * > "…doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting a > different result, each time…"

Are you trying to tell me that turning a guitar amp up to where it overdrives is unusual in some way???  Maybe you should get out of your bedroom sometime? Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >the TSL602  are having the same problem. >Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >– Adam > All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If > you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter > signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go.

Well this depends on the amp.  The OP didn’t even say which of the three channels he was in, or how they were set up.  If he’s got the gain max’ed out on the highest gain channel, further boost at preamp may get mushy and muddy.  But it would do something entirely different with less gain or in the effects loop (which is what OP is complaining about — not being able to use it in the loop). Not all preamps are the same.  A little goose at the front end can lead to more drive all the way to the power amp.  …with or without pushing the first gain stages into distortion (depends on amp design).  …and some guys LIKE a preamp tube distortion, especially in a Marshall. > Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp > down.

WHY?  This guy is talking METAL.  He may WANT to push the preamp tubes into distortion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Chris

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Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely "metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and the amp I’m using. The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the loop. I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >>years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >>amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >>I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >>playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >>gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >>through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >>for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >>Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >>Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >>another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >>both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >>Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >>TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >>and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >>I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >>there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >>my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >>And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >>boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >>would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >>the TSL602  are having the same problem. >>Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >>– Adam > All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If > you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter > signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. > Well this depends on the amp.  The OP didn’t even say which of the three > channels he was in, or how they were set up.  If he’s got the gain > max’ed out on the highest gain channel, further boost at preamp may get > mushy and muddy.  But it would do something entirely different with less > gain or in the effects loop (which is what OP is complaining about — > not being able to use it in the loop). > Not all preamps are the same.  A little goose at the front end can lead > to more drive all the way to the power amp.  …with or without pushing > the first gain stages into distortion (depends on amp design).  …and > some guys LIKE a preamp tube distortion, especially in a Marshall. > Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp > down. > WHY?  This guy is talking METAL.  He may WANT to push the preamp tubes > into distortion. > Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >>> years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >>> amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >>> I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >>> playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >>> gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >>> through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >>> for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >>> Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >>> Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >>> another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >>> both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >>> Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >>> TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >>> and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >>> I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >>> there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >>> my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >>> And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >>> boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >>> would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >>> the TSL602  are having the same problem. >>> Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >>> — Adam >> All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If >> you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter >> signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. >> Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp >> down. >> Chris > Aren’t you the guy who almost _always_ comes out in favor of deafening > amp volume levels just to achieve breakup into saturation vs. > utilization of the 12AX7/ECC83 tube and circuitry in say, a Radial > Engineering Tonebone (or, the no-tube killer overdrive provided by boxes > like Voodoo’s Sparkle Drive or Fulltone USA’s Full Drive 2)? > Something tells me that you’re no stranger to the sentence; > "Hey man,…uhhh look -couldja just turn it down a little?" > For some odd reason, there’s an entire camp of guys who view the > brilliant innovations in stomp box distortion as; > "Ugh! Fire! Wheel! Me like raw. Me walk!". > Meanwhile, a ton of other musicians grow hot silently and slowly when > they find themselves playing with a guy from planet bloody eardrum, all > the while thinking…"…man -this fucking guy. It’s ALL about HIM…" > And yet another band breaks up with sour feelings…and one guy > NEVER learns. Why, he COULDN’T be wrong!!!! Thus he goes on selling > his position to anyone with two ears and a set of nostrils*. > It’s honestly funny on some level. Thoughts on the topic? > Regards, > mvm > * > "…doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting a > different result, each time…" > Are you trying to tell me that turning a guitar amp up to where it > overdrives is unusual in some way???  Maybe you should get out of your > bedroom sometime? > Chris

Been there, done that tykester! I absolutely love how the term "bedroom" came into vogue JUST as technology enabled players to turn their backs on recording studios. Technology can’t replace distribution and marketing, but everything else, -yes. So now, the "bedroom" gets hurled as some sort of attempt at a sneering epithet (even if it’s a converted barn or garage) by those about to (realize they must have had) rock(s)(in their heads for hustling music in looza bars). Take your ridiculously low slung guit out to the sawdust and brew. There, work those 1st to 3rd position power chord chops into an amp turned up to the point not even drunks care. Saturate baby! mvm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime > the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely > "metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering > volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and > the amp I’m using. > The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not > provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless > of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to > many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half > stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in > front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it > worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. > Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using > has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is > either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the > loop. > I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my > amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that > either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum > volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! >>> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >>> years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >>> amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >>> I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >>> playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >>> gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >>> through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >>> for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >>> Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >>> Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >>> another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >>> both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >>> Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >>> TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >>> and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >>> I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >>> there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >>> my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >>> And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >>> boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >>> would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >>> the TSL602  are having the same problem. >>> Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >>> — Adam >> All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If >> you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter >> signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. > Well this depends on the amp.  The OP didn’t even say which of the three > channels he was in, or how they were set up.  If he’s got the gain > max’ed out on the highest gain channel, further boost at preamp may get > mushy and muddy.  But it would do something entirely different with less > gain or in the effects loop (which is what OP is complaining about — > not being able to use it in the loop). > Not all preamps are the same.  A little goose at the front end can lead > to more drive all the way to the power amp.  …with or without pushing > the first gain stages into distortion (depends on amp design).  …and > some guys LIKE a preamp tube distortion, especially in a Marshall. >> Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp >> down. > WHY?  This guy is talking METAL.  He may WANT to push the preamp tubes > into distortion. >> Chris

_Answer_: You’re stubbornly ignoring a divine hint. Time to grow as a player and musical soul, beyond…metal. Back to the shed with you. Good luck! mvm

Response:

> Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime > the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely > "metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering > volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and > the amp I’m using. > The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not > provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless > of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.  

When put at the front end:  If you are max’ed out on gain in a high gain circuit, it makes sense that you have little or NO headroom left.  All you will get is more mush, heading towards a fuzz type tone.  Not more volume. > I spoke to > many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half > stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in > front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it > worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating.

You are saying that it works in the effects loop, but you do not get additional boost?  Even when the master is turned down?  If so, you need a loop that is placed AFTER the master volume. I wouldn’t have chosen that amp for metal.  Have you done the obvious — tried it with a 4×12 cab?  Going combo to 4×12 and choice of driver can make a HUGE difference in tone. If you want a metal tone, you might want to ask whether this amp is suitable to be biased for GE 6550A outputs.  More power, more bottom. When they break up, it’s less blues/classic rock and more metal.  This idea may require a change to the bias circuit.  And REAL GE 6550A are EXPENSIVE.  It would be louder and more of a metal amp, though. But your real answer may be to sell that amp, and buy a high gain head (Mesa, Soldano, even 5150 since you mentioned it) and a 4×12 with speakers that sound good with metal (have some brightness and bottom).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for > years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo > amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. > I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band > playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for > gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut > through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great > for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). > Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall > Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s > another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — > both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro > Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my > TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) > and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. > I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is > there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of > my  TSL 602 combo?    

Not, if you already have run out of HEADROOM without the MXR in the dirty channels. > Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop??

Mismatch in gain structure/levels  between the MXR and the loop. > And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume > boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?

NONE!  Without HEADROOM, there is nothing more to be gained, for volume increase. >     Any advice > would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of > the TSL602  are having the same problem.

Find your HEADROOM again in that amp, or go for another amp with better features or options that allow for HEADROOM adjustments where the MXR can be inserted, and become effective for a volume increase. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >>>> years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >>>> amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >>>> I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >>>> playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >>>> gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >>>> through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >>>> for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >>>> Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >>>> Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >>>> another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >>>> both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >>>> Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >>>> TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >>>> and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >>>> I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >>>> there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >>>> my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >>>> And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >>>> boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >>>> would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >>>> the TSL602  are having the same problem. >>>> Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >>>> — Adam >>> All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If >>> you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter >>> signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. >>> Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp >>> down. >>> Chris >> Aren’t you the guy who almost _always_ comes out in favor of deafening >> amp volume levels just to achieve breakup into saturation vs. >> utilization of the 12AX7/ECC83 tube and circuitry in say, a Radial >> Engineering Tonebone (or, the no-tube killer overdrive provided by boxes >> like Voodoo’s Sparkle Drive or Fulltone USA’s Full Drive 2)? >> Something tells me that you’re no stranger to the sentence; >> "Hey man,…uhhh look -couldja just turn it down a little?" >> For some odd reason, there’s an entire camp of guys who view the >> brilliant innovations in stomp box distortion as; >> "Ugh! Fire! Wheel! Me like raw. Me walk!". >> Meanwhile, a ton of other musicians grow hot silently and slowly when >> they find themselves playing with a guy from planet bloody eardrum, all >> the while thinking…"…man -this fucking guy. It’s ALL about HIM…" >> And yet another band breaks up with sour feelings…and one guy >> NEVER learns. Why, he COULDN’T be wrong!!!! Thus he goes on selling >> his position to anyone with two ears and a set of nostrils*. >> It’s honestly funny on some level. Thoughts on the topic? >> Regards, >> mvm >> * >> "…doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting a >> different result, each time…" > Are you trying to tell me that turning a guitar amp up to where it > overdrives is unusual in some way???  Maybe you should get out of your > bedroom sometime? > Chris > Been there, done that tykester! I absolutely love how the term "bedroom" > came into vogue JUST as technology enabled players to turn their backs > on recording studios. Technology can’t replace distribution and > marketing, but everything else, -yes. So now, the "bedroom" gets > hurled as some sort of attempt at a sneering epithet (even if it’s a > converted barn or garage) by those about to (realize they must have had) > rock(s)(in their heads for hustling music in looza bars). Take your > ridiculously low slung guit out to the sawdust and brew. There, work > those 1st to 3rd position power chord chops into an amp turned up to the > point not even drunks care. Saturate baby! mvm

Could someone translate for me? Are you saying playing in bands is a stupid?? Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >>years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >>amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >>I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >>playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >>gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >>through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >>for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >>Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >>Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >>another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >>both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >>Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >>TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >>and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >>I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >>there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >>my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >>And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >>boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >>would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >>the TSL602  are having the same problem. >>Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >>– Adam > All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If > you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter > signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. > Well this depends on the amp.  The OP didn’t even say which of the three > channels he was in, or how they were set up.  If he’s got the gain > max’ed out on the highest gain channel, further boost at preamp may get > mushy and muddy.  But it would do something entirely different with less > gain or in the effects loop (which is what OP is complaining about — > not being able to use it in the loop).

Isn’t that what I said Jim? > Not all preamps are the same.  A little goose at the front end can lead > to more drive all the way to the power amp.  …with or without pushing > the first gain stages into distortion (depends on amp design).  …and > some guys LIKE a preamp tube distortion, especially in a Marshall. > Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp > down. > WHY?  This guy is talking METAL.  He may WANT to push the preamp tubes > into distortion.

Because as we’ve both just said, if he is already running the preamp at 10, kicking in a boost pedal is not going to raise his volume level much. Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime > the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely > "metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering > volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and > the amp I’m using. > The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not > provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless > of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to > many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half > stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in > front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it > worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. > Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using > has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is > either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the > loop. > I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my > amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that > either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum > volume took away all the gain.  Ugh!

Would you humour me and try turning your master volume up to where the amp overdrives, then add preamp to flavour?   I don’t think you need your preamp on 10 and this way when you kick in the Microamp, you will get a boost.   Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for >>>>> years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo >>>>> amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. >>>>> I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band >>>>> playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for >>>>> gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut >>>>> through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great >>>>> for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). >>>>> Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall >>>>> Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s >>>>> another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — >>>>> both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro >>>>> Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my >>>>> TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) >>>>> and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. >>>>> I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is >>>>> there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of >>>>> my  TSL 602 combo?    Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? >>>>> And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume >>>>> boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602?     Any advice >>>>> would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of >>>>> the TSL602  are having the same problem. >>>>> Thanks, and hope to hear from you. >>>>> — Adam >>>> All any boost pedal does is send a hotter signal to your preamp.  If >>>> you are already running your preamp full out, hitting it with a hotter >>>> signal is not going to do much.  There’s nowhere to go. >>>> Try turning your amp up to where it overdrives and turn your preamp >>>> down. >>>> Chris >>> Aren’t you the guy who almost _always_ comes out in favor of deafening >>> amp volume levels just to achieve breakup into saturation vs. >>> utilization of the 12AX7/ECC83 tube and circuitry in say, a Radial >>> Engineering Tonebone (or, the no-tube killer overdrive provided by boxes >>> like Voodoo’s Sparkle Drive or Fulltone USA’s Full Drive 2)? >>> Something tells me that you’re no stranger to the sentence; >>> "Hey man,…uhhh look -couldja just turn it down a little?" >>> For some odd reason, there’s an entire camp of guys who view the >>> brilliant innovations in stomp box distortion as; >>> "Ugh! Fire! Wheel! Me like raw. Me walk!". >>> Meanwhile, a ton of other musicians grow hot silently and slowly when >>> they find themselves playing with a guy from planet bloody eardrum, all >>> the while thinking…"…man -this fucking guy. It’s ALL about HIM…" >>> And yet another band breaks up with sour feelings…and one guy >>> NEVER learns. Why, he COULDN’T be wrong!!!! Thus he goes on selling >>> his position to anyone with two ears and a set of nostrils*. >>> It’s honestly funny on some level. Thoughts on the topic? >>> Regards, >>> mvm >>> * >>> "…doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting a >>> different result, each time…" >> Are you trying to tell me that turning a guitar amp up to where it >> overdrives is unusual in some way???  Maybe you should get out of your >> bedroom sometime? >> Chris > Been there, done that tykester! I absolutely love how the term "bedroom" > came into vogue JUST as technology enabled players to turn their backs > on recording studios. Technology can’t replace distribution and > marketing, but everything else, -yes. So now, the "bedroom" gets > hurled as some sort of attempt at a sneering epithet (even if it’s a > converted barn or garage) by those about to (realize they must have had) > rock(s)(in their heads for hustling music in looza bars). Take your > ridiculously low slung guit out to the sawdust and brew. There, work > those 1st to 3rd position power chord chops into an amp turned up to the > point not even drunks care. Saturate baby! mvm > Could someone translate for me? > Are you saying playing in bands is a stupid?? > Chris

You’ve got the mind of a drummer.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime >the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely >"metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering >volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and >the amp I’m using. >The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not >provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless >of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to >many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half >stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in >front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it >worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. >Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using >has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is >either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the >loop. >I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my >amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that >either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum >volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! > Would you humour me and try turning your master volume up to where the > amp overdrives, then add preamp to flavour?

He plays METAL.  Not classic rock.  Not blues.  METAL.    I don’t think you need – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> your preamp on 10 and this way when you kick in the Microamp, you will > get a boost.   > Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime >>the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely >>"metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering >>volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and >>the amp I’m using. >>The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not >>provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless >>of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to >>many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half >>stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in >>front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it >>worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. >>Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using >>has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is >>either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the >>loop. >>I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my >>amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that >>either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum >>volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! > Would you humour me and try turning your master volume up to where the > amp overdrives, then add preamp to flavour? > He plays METAL.  Not classic rock.  Not blues.  METAL.

And?  What do you think Iron Maiden recorded with?  System of a Down? AC/DC?  Black Sabbath? CRANKED TUBE AMPS!!  They didn’t have Dual Rectifiers back then and SOAD used JCM 800’s on their last album. Chris

Response:

I actually think the issue here, that nobody addressed, is that volume boosts cannot work with a *parallel* FX loop — at least the kind that is used on the TSL602 combo.   If it were a serial FX loop, I’m sure the volume boost would work on all channels.   Wish there were a way to convert it from a parallel FX loop to a serial FX loop. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for > years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo > amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. > I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band > playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for > gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut > through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great > for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). > Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall > Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s > another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — > both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro > Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my > TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) > and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. > I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is > there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of > my  TSL 602 combo? > Not, if you already have run out of HEADROOM without the MXR in the dirty channels. > Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? > Mismatch in gain structure/levels  between the MXR and the loop. > And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume > boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602? > NONE!  Without HEADROOM, there is nothing more to be gained, for volume increase. >     Any advice > would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of > the TSL602  are having the same problem. > Find your HEADROOM again in that amp, or go for another amp with better features or options that > allow for HEADROOM adjustments where the MXR can be inserted, and become effective for a volume > increase. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

Incidentally, I have tried many, many times to lower the pre-amp and/ or the Master.   Perhaps there is more of an increase in GAIN but there is still no increase whatsoever in VOLUME (except, of course, on the Clean channel).   Hence, I believe that the parallel vs. serial FX loop issue is at play here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I absolutely love my MXR Micro Amp pedal, and have been using it for > years as a great solo boost. However, it only works as long as my combo > amp is on the Clean channel, and I’m using a distortion pedal. > I own a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL602 Combo amp.   I’m in a cover band > playing 80s metal. After years of using a Boss Metal Zone pedal for > gigs, I am finally fed up with its thin sound and its inability to cut > through the mix at gigging volume levels.  My Micro Amp worked great > for years when I used the Metal Zone (amp on Clean channel). > Now that I want to use the amp distortion provided by the Marshall > Combo (I’ve never been completely happy with this amp, but that’s > another story),  my beloved MXR Micro Amp has been rendered useless — > both in front of the amp AND in the FX Loop.   I hear that the Micro > Amp works in the FX loops of JCM 800 heads, etc., but apparently, my > TSL602 combo has a different type of FX loop (series vs. parallel??) > and my boost does NOT work on the Crunch or Lead channels. > I can’t tell you how frustrating this is.   My first question is, is > there ANY way I can get the Micro Amp to work on the dirty channels of > my  TSL 602 combo? > Not, if you already have run out of HEADROOM without the MXR in the dirty channels. > Also, why doesn’t it work, even in its FX Loop?? > Mismatch in gain structure/levels  between the MXR and the loop. > And lastly, what other alternatives do I have for an effective volume > boost for solos on the dirty channels of my TSL 602? > NONE!  Without HEADROOM, there is nothing more to be gained, for volume increase. >     Any advice > would be greatly appreciated.    I’m wondering if any other owners of > the TSL602  are having the same problem. > Find your HEADROOM again in that amp, or go for another amp with better features or options that > allow for HEADROOM adjustments where the MXR can be inserted, and become effective for a volume > increase. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime >>>the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely >>>"metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering >>>volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and >>>the amp I’m using. >>>The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not >>>provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless >>>of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to >>>many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half >>>stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in >>>front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it >>>worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. >>>Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using >>>has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is >>>either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the >>>loop. >>>I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my >>>amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that >>>either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum >>>volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! >>Would you humour me and try turning your master volume up to where the >>amp overdrives, then add preamp to flavour? >He plays METAL.  Not classic rock.  Not blues.  METAL. > And?  What do you think Iron Maiden recorded with?  System of a Down? > AC/DC?  Black Sabbath? > CRANKED TUBE AMPS!!

C’mon Chris, you know there’s more than one flavor of metal.  AC/DC is heavy power tube distortion.  Modern metal is NOT. > They didn’t have Dual Rectifiers back then and > SOAD used JCM 800’s on their last album.

I’m not a big SOAD fan, although I own one album.  But WHICH JCM 800? There are different models, which are apples to oranges. Even if it is a 2204, there are MANY ways to run it (I ought to know, I’ve owned a JMP 2204 since it was new, more than 25 years now).  You can run that amp with power tube distortion, OR preamp distortion, or an infinite blend. MY OPINION:  *MANY* guys who swear "preamp distortion blows, only power tube distortion sounds good" would be very surprised to hear a GOOD 2204 (read JMP) with GOOD tubes into a GOOD cab. You sound entirely arrogant when you tell another guitarist that he needs to crank up the master then increase the preamp.  That is what YOU like (with your Seymour Duncan amp).  It may be what most players like.   But it obviously is NOT what the OP likes! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime >>>>the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely >>>>"metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering >>>>volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and >>>>the amp I’m using. >>>>The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not >>>>provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless >>>>of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to >>>>many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half >>>>stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in >>>>front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it >>>>worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. >>>>Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using >>>>has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is >>>>either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the >>>>loop. >>>>I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my >>>>amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that >>>>either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum >>>>volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! >>>Would you humour me and try turning your master volume up to where the >>>amp overdrives, then add preamp to flavour? >>He plays METAL.  Not classic rock.  Not blues.  METAL. > And?  What do you think Iron Maiden recorded with?  System of a Down? > AC/DC?  Black Sabbath? > CRANKED TUBE AMPS!! > C’mon Chris, you know there’s more than one flavor of metal.  AC/DC is > heavy power tube distortion.  Modern metal is NOT. > They didn’t have Dual Rectifiers back then and > SOAD used JCM 800’s on their last album. > I’m not a big SOAD fan, although I own one album.  But WHICH JCM 800? > There are different models, which are apples to oranges. > Even if it is a 2204, there are MANY ways to run it (I ought to know, > I’ve owned a JMP 2204 since it was new, more than 25 years now).  You > can run that amp with power tube distortion, OR preamp distortion, or an > infinite blend. > MY OPINION:  *MANY* guys who swear "preamp distortion blows, only power > tube distortion sounds good" would be very surprised to hear a GOOD 2204 > (read JMP) with GOOD tubes into a GOOD cab. > You sound entirely arrogant when you tell another guitarist that he > needs to crank up the master then increase the preamp.  That is what YOU > like (with your Seymour Duncan amp).  It may be what most players like. >   But it obviously is NOT what the OP likes! > Chris

Here’s the OP’s problem. He wants to play metal and needs a boost for solos. Metal doesn’t have to be just preamp overdrive with 0 power tube overdrive. If he backs off on the preamp, (losing some gain) and cranks his amp (adding some gain) he will end up with the same amount of gain with some balls and his boost pedal will work. Ya heard? What’s arrogant about suggesting a solution to someone’s problem? Chris

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> Incidentally, I have tried many, many times to lower the pre-amp and/ > or the Master.   Perhaps there is more of an increase in GAIN but there > is still no increase whatsoever in VOLUME (except, of course, on the > Clean channel).   Hence, I believe that the parallel vs. serial FX loop > issue is at play here.

You’re saying that on the dirty channel with no knobs maxed out, your Microamp does not boost the volume when you are using it in front of your amp? Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to >>>> dime >>>> the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely >>>> "metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or >>>> lowering >>>> volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and >>>> the amp I’m using. >>>> The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not >>>> provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, >>>> regardless >>>> of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to >>>> many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half >>>> stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was >>>> placed in >>>> front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it >>>> worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. >>>> Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m >>>> using >>>> has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is >>>> either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the >>>> loop. >>>> I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my >>>> amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that >>>> either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum >>>> volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! >>> Would you humour me and try turning your master volume up to where the >>> amp overdrives, then add preamp to flavour? >> He plays METAL.  Not classic rock.  Not blues.  METAL. > And?  What do you think Iron Maiden recorded with?  System of a Down? > AC/DC?  Black Sabbath? > CRANKED TUBE AMPS!! > C’mon Chris, you know there’s more than one flavor of metal.  AC/DC is > heavy power tube distortion.  Modern metal is NOT. > They didn’t have Dual Rectifiers back then and > SOAD used JCM 800’s on their last album. > I’m not a big SOAD fan, although I own one album.  But WHICH JCM 800? > There are different models, which are apples to oranges. > Even if it is a 2204, there are MANY ways to run it (I ought to know, > I’ve owned a JMP 2204 since it was new, more than 25 years now).  You > can run that amp with power tube distortion, OR preamp distortion, or an > infinite blend. > MY OPINION:  *MANY* guys who swear "preamp distortion blows, only power > tube distortion sounds good" would be very surprised to hear a GOOD 2204 > (read JMP) with GOOD tubes into a GOOD cab.

I forgot to mention… Even though other amps have a harsher preamp distortion, it can work for metal. Now my last comment makes more sense: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You sound entirely arrogant when you tell another guitarist that he > needs to crank up the master then increase the preamp.  That is what YOU > like (with your Seymour Duncan amp).  It may be what most players like. >  But it obviously is NOT what the OP likes! > Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>>Yes, you are right — I am playing mostly 80s metal, and I have to dime >>>>>the gain on the OD2 channel of my TSL602 combo even to get a remotely >>>>>"metal" sound to it!  So any talk of backing off the preamp or lowering >>>>>volume, etc., is not practical for the style of music I’m playing and >>>>>the amp I’m using. >>>>>The main problem is, as you said, that the MXR Micro Amp does not >>>>>provide any volume boost whatsoever on the *dirty* channels, regardless >>>>>of whether it’s in the FX Loop or in front of the amp.   I spoke to >>>>>many people who own different amps, (5150 half stacks, JCM 800 half >>>>>stacks, etc.) who had the same problem when the Micro Amp was placed in >>>>>front of the amp. HOWEVER, when they place it in the FX Loop, it >>>>>worked.  Not so for me, which is endlessly frustrating. >>>>>Therefore, I believe that the Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-602 combo I’m using >>>>>has a different type of FX Loop (a type of parallel FX Loop) that is >>>>>either weak or does not allow the Micro Amp to work properly in the >>>>>loop. >>>>>I went to Sam Ash music store yesterday and tried a Boss GE-7 with my >>>>>amp — no volume boost either. I even tried a volume pedal, but that >>>>>either silenced the amp altogether in the off position or the minimum >>>>>volume took away all the gain.  Ugh! >>>>Would you humour me and try turning your master volume up to where the >>>>amp overdrives, then add preamp to flavour? >>>He plays METAL.  Not classic rock.  Not blues.  METAL. >>And?  What do you think Iron Maiden recorded with?  System of a Down? >>AC/DC?  Black Sabbath? >>CRANKED TUBE AMPS!! >C’mon Chris, you know there’s more than one flavor of metal.  AC/DC is >heavy power tube distortion.  Modern metal is NOT. >>They didn’t have Dual Rectifiers back then and >>SOAD used JCM 800’s on their last album. >I’m not a big SOAD fan, although I own one album.  But WHICH JCM 800? >There are different models, which are apples to oranges. >Even if it is a 2204, there are MANY ways to run it (I ought to know, >I’ve owned a JMP 2204 since it was new, more than 25 years now).  You >can run that amp with power tube distortion, OR preamp distortion, or an >infinite blend. >MY OPINION:  *MANY* guys who swear "preamp distortion blows, only power >tube distortion sounds good" would be very surprised to hear a GOOD 2204 >(read JMP) with GOOD tubes into a GOOD cab. >You sound entirely arrogant when you tell another guitarist that he >needs to crank up the master then increase the preamp.  That is what YOU >like (with your Seymour Duncan amp).  It may be what most players like. >  But it obviously is NOT what the OP likes! >>Chris > Here’s the OP’s problem. > He wants to play metal and needs a boost for solos. > Metal doesn’t have to be just preamp overdrive with 0 power tube > overdrive. > If he backs off on the preamp, (losing some gain) and cranks his amp > (adding some gain) he will end up with the same amount of gain with > some balls and his boost pedal will work. > Ya heard?

Or, he might find that layering the smoother power tube distortion on his preamp gain actually smoothes out the preamp distortion.  In which case, he might end up DISAPPOINTED.

Response:

Correct. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Incidentally, I have tried many, many times to lower the pre-amp and/ > or the Master.   Perhaps there is more of an increase in GAIN but there > is still no increase whatsoever in VOLUME (except, of course, on the > Clean channel).   Hence, I believe that the parallel vs. serial FX loop > issue is at play here. > You’re saying that on the dirty channel with no knobs maxed out, your > Microamp does not boost the volume when you are using it in front of > your amp? > Chris

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> CRANKED TUBE AMPS!! > Chris

Speaking of AGA loops

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