SS amp for guitar MOSFET or standard device
Question:
> What is more desirable, MOSFET or standard? > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794
Depends on how either are applied.
Response:
> What is more desirable, MOSFET or standard?
Neither. Tubes is the only way to go. SS sucks hard.
Response:
>Neither. Tubes is the only way to go. SS sucks hard.
Hate to tell ya, but a CORRECTLY designed SS device beats a cheap tube amp anytime. We’re talking $/sound. I do prefer tube, but trouble is, no one today is designing/building a ‘CORRECT’ SS amp. All the masses have to judge today is crap. NO L5’s, no ‘Super Beatles’, no H|H Musicians..GMT. Till folks started this "SS SUX" rap, they either played thru many and didn’t know, or they dumped some cheap 9vt crap effect in front of some Icon tube amp and got the same thing. 2days overseas tube stuff is only slightly better then the O/Seas SS stuff.. Today’s market of SS is mainly (thru mod amps/effects) IC/PC/WEE-WEE chips that have little if any musicale value. GOOD SS never includes IC chips. EVER… JJTj I am frolicsome, I am easy, Good tempered and free, And I don’t give a single pin’ me boys What the world thinks of me.
Response:
>GOOD SS never includes IC chips. EVER…
I was wrong, sorry…my bad.. The Moog Lab series that used cheap IC’s still, with great design, sounded great.. The H|H stuff was cheap 741 chips, that sounded good for some stupid, unknown, long buried reason.. JJTj
Response:
> What is more desirable, MOSFET or standard? > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794
I’m no expert, but I do know that a lot of guys that design high end audio like MOSFET transistors. Something about them being more musical? I found this artical. http://www.livesoundint.com/archives/2001/julyaug/mosfet/mosfet.php What are you making now Plow? — Regards B.H. Brian’s Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm Brian’s Basement http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/6.htm
Response:
>> What are you making now Plow? > Well I have an old SCS (Sound Code Systems) 350 watt per channel stereo > rack mount power amp (MOSFET)that someone wanted to buy off me to use for > a guitar rig using a couple 2×12 cabs. I was under the impression that > MOSFETs were warmer than bipolar transistors. I really didn’t want to sell > the thing and have this dude be unhappy with the sound as I have someone > interested in it as a PA amp. > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794
Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way? BH
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> What are you making now Plow? >> Well I have an old SCS (Sound Code Systems) 350 watt per channel stereo >> rack mount power amp (MOSFET)that someone wanted to buy off me to use >> for a guitar rig using a couple 2×12 cabs. I was under the impression >> that MOSFETs were warmer than bipolar transistors. I really didn’t want >> to sell the thing and have this dude be unhappy with the sound as I have >> someone interested in it as a PA amp. >> — >> Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 >> COOSN-266-06-25794 > Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar > types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to > shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way? > Yep I used it for awhile for a bass amp and it sounded great. Someone > actually gave it to me dead and the MOSFETs it used were discontinued. > I found suitable replacements off a private individual though. I used it > gigging weekends for maybe a year until I bought a used Crown Microtech > 1000 off some dude needing cash. However I never did played a regular > guitar thru it. This guy who wants it is also willing to buy an old > Digitec GSP-21 off me as a package. Guess I could haul it all over to his > house and hook it up and see if we can get a sound he likes. I can > remember playing the GSP-21 thru my PA gear here at home and it didn’t > sound too damn bad but just for practice. > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794
I think it’ll work. I’ve played through all kinds of weird shit myself. One things for sure, it’ll be loud enough : ) BH
Response:
On stage EVH dumped his final sound into a H|H MOSFET poweramp (no longer made) Gave him 3-400 watts RMS a side. The schematic shows just simple MOSFET stuff. EVEN when he used the PV stuff..he used the H|H.. MOSFET sounds ‘tube like’ and but holds up better on the road. It was also all the rage back then. I tell ya, there are tricks with MOSFETS that can be done that would shame any current made tube amp. WITHIN it’s price range, and here is where MOSFET has an edge..2 day’s Tube stuff is way overpriced..or crap.. JJTj
Response:
>Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar >types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to >shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way?
G/Dead. Fender tube preamp stages & MacIntosh SS power amps..that HAD output tranz. 200 a side. JJTj
Response:
>> I think it’ll work. I’ve played through all kinds of weird shit myself. > One things for sure, it’ll be loud enough : ) > Oh hell yes it will be loud. If I recall it’s 375 into 4 per side. Plus > MOSFET’s are more rugged than bipolar since the devices have a negative > temperature coefficient ie: not prone to thermal runaway. > — > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004 > COOSN-266-06-25794
If doesn’t work out you can always use it to remove paint or break up concrete : ) The loudest amp I ever owned was a Marshall Major. Damn! that was a brutal amp. BH
Response:
: : >GOOD SS never includes IC chips. EVER… : : : I was wrong, sorry…my bad.. : : The Moog Lab series that used cheap IC’s : still, with great design, sounded great.. : : The H|H stuff was cheap 741 chips, that sounded : good for some stupid, unknown, long buried reason.. : : : JJTj . I’m nearly finished with an SS amp design that uses IC’s. In the past, I’ve always used discretes for amp design and opamps for FX designs. I hope within the next month to post some sound clips of this new opamp based guitar amp. I was supposed to finish it about 3 months ago. Each time I was about to wrap it up, I’d bumble on something new that warranted investigation. In fact, at this point, I’m getting a little tired of chancing upon new phenomena. I’m starting to feel like Forest Gump when he had to go visit the President for the third frikken time. I shouldn’t complain being that as a result, the amp just keeps sounding better and better. But damn, at this point the amps sounding so good and I’ve spent sooo much energy on this project, should I perchance to bumble on anything new again, it’s just going to have to wait until the next design. Anyway, my point is that this opamp ( IC) based design may well settle the question for once and for all the debate between IC and discrete. At least this particular design is beating my past discrete designs which I thought were nearly unbeatable. After all, what is an opamp anyway except a bunch of discrete transistors sharing the same substrate. Of course, the dielectric constant of the substrate and the IC packaging can all come into play insofar as opamp performance goes. Such is why a lot of chip manufacturers are looking for new materials with improved dielectric properties. Some are looking into ways to reduce dielectric parasitics by suspending the IC guts in as much dead air space as possible, or even in a vacuum. I’m looking forward to the next generation of "improved performance" IC’s I will say this about the opamp based amp design that I’m about to finish, although I won’t say which opamp I’m using, I will say that it’s certainly not your typical garden variety opamp.
Response:
: : On stage EVH dumped his final sound into : a H|H MOSFET poweramp (no longer made) : : Gave him 3-400 watts RMS a side. The : schematic shows just simple MOSFET stuff. : : EVEN when he used the PV stuff..he used the H|H.. : : MOSFET sounds ‘tube like’ and but holds up better : on the road. It was also all the rage back then. : : I tell ya, there are tricks with MOSFETS that can : be done that would shame any current made tube amp. : : WITHIN it’s price range, and here is where MOSFET has : an edge..2 day’s Tube stuff is way overpriced..or crap.. : : JJTj Well, I gotta say, despite some unduring myths about reliability issues with mosfets, a friend of mine has been using a Pearce G2 that I converted the output section to mosfets for over twenty years. And he gigs an average of 3-4 night/week. Had a look at it recently. Expected I’d need to rebias it or something, but nope. It checked out rock solid biased up to within 2 % of where I set it over twenty years ago. FWIW, I designed what I thought was a rather clever bias scheme with relatively high impedance biasing resistors and the drive signals coupled low impedance-wize through capacitors. The idea being that should any of the mosfets fail, this scheme localizes their failures thus isolating and protecting the pre-drive circuitry. Also, each of the 4 mosfets had their own individual bias control which I adjusted with the amp operating at the point where the mosfets were at peak power dissipation. In this manner, the 4 mosfets at the peak stress point are sharing the load equally.
Response:
: : >Neither. Tubes is the only way to go. SS sucks hard. : > : : : : Hate to tell ya, but a CORRECTLY designed SS device : beats a cheap tube amp anytime. We’re talking $/sound. : : I do prefer tube, but trouble is, no one today : is designing/building a ‘CORRECT’ SS amp. Well, I do believe I am designing a so called "correct" SS amp being that my curent design is a real tone monster that will put a lot of tube amps to shame. Probably there are other SS designers out there that are doing good stuff too. So there *are* people designing good SS guitar amps. However, in my case, there’s a good chance that I’ll never sell any of my designs ( well, better designs that is) to the GP since it’s easier to do one off custom jobs for select people rather than worry about the headaches of running a business and protecting intellectual property. Perhaps that’s the way it is for some other SS designers too. Dunno. : All the : masses have to judge today is crap. NO L5’s, no : ‘Super Beatles’, no H|H Musicians..GMT. Till folks : started this "SS SUX" rap, they either played thru : many and didn’t know, or they dumped some cheap : 9vt crap effect in front of some Icon tube amp : and got the same thing. 2days overseas tube stuff : is only slightly better then the O/Seas SS stuff.. : : Today’s market of SS is mainly (thru mod amps/effects) : IC/PC/WEE-WEE chips that have little if any musicale : value. GOOD SS never includes IC chips. EVER… : : : JJTj : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : I am frolicsome, I am easy, : Good tempered and free, : And I don’t give a single pin’ me boys : What the world thinks of me.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, I do believe I am designing a so called > "correct" SS amp being that my curent design > is a real tone monster that will put a lot of tube > amps to shame. Probably there are other SS > designers out there that are doing good stuff too. > So there *are* people designing good SS guitar > amps. > However, in my case, there’s a good chance > that I’ll never sell any of my designs > ( well, better designs that is) to the GP > since it’s easier to do one off custom jobs for > select people rather than worry about the > headaches of running a business and protecting > intellectual property. Perhaps that’s the way it > is for some other SS designers too. Dunno.
If you are a SS designer, you probably have an idea or have heard about the principle of this hybrid desing (12AT7 + MOSFETS) (I guess more like a valve-amp, but just guessing…): http://www.randallamplifiers.com/about/news/valvedynamic.asp –Risto
Response:
>If you are a SS designer, you probably have an idea or have heard about the >principle >of this hybrid desing (12AT7 + MOSFETS) (I guess more like a valve-amp, but >just guessing…):
U have to be kidding. MOSFETs were adapted to tubes in the OLD FART DAYS with the NYAL "Super-It". I bought out the NYAL stash of MOSFETs back then from G/Kaye (sp?) who is the ICON of those MOSCODE amps, and was blessed to work under J Futterman and his OTL amps. AWESOME bass player, BTW.. "..New York Audio Labs.." (NYAL) Put me up in his house while we did the deed, still got the paperwork around somewhere. GKaye is one class act..a pro.. It’s just that NOW MOSFETs have the specs to mold with tubes, but then again, I got an Infinity Hybrid power amp that blended tubes n ’sistors. Luxman did it too. "..Learn or be sold to.." HIRE me, I’m for sale… JJTj
Response:
: : > : > : > Well, I do believe I am designing a so called : > "correct" SS amp being that my curent design : > is a real tone monster that will put a lot of tube : > amps to shame. Probably there are other SS : > designers out there that are doing good stuff too. : > So there *are* people designing good SS guitar : > amps. : > However, in my case, there’s a good chance : > that I’ll never sell any of my designs : > ( well, better designs that is) to the GP : > since it’s easier to do one off custom jobs for : > select people rather than worry about the : > headaches of running a business and protecting : > intellectual property. Perhaps that’s the way it : > is for some other SS designers too. Dunno. : > : If you are a SS designer, you probably have an idea or have heard about the : principle : of this hybrid desing (12AT7 + MOSFETS) (I guess more like a valve-amp, but : just guessing…): : http://www.randallamplifiers.com/about/news/valvedynamic.asp : : –Risto Interesting read but insofar as the principle goes, they aren’t saying what they did so I have no idea what their principle is It seems that their primary goal is to make a SS amp (or hybrid SS amp) sound like a tube amp. My approach was similar at one time, but it’s a bit different now. My goal now is to simply try to make an SS amp sound as good as it can and not be predjudiced or bias and possibly limited by assuming that tube amps are necessarily the ultimate pinnacle or direction SS should go. As a result, the design I’m currently working on in some ways IMHO surpasses tube amps. At least insofar as clean rythm tones go, this design seems to have a degree of depth and tightness that I’ve never heard from a tube amp. So it may just well turn out that there are some things that SS does better and likewise some things that tubes do better. But I suppose there’s really no point in comparing as it’s more or less an apples and oranges thing. Apples are good and oranges are good. Viva la differance.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well that’s what they say in the hifi circles " there better than bipolar >types. It’s just a power amp, right? If so he’ll need a preamp anyway to >shape his tone and I don’t see a problem? Have you tried it that way? > G/Dead. Fender tube preamp stages & MacIntosh SS > power amps..that HAD output tranz. 200 a side. > JJTj
I’m sure they liked the reliability of SS power amps? BH
Response:
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