Fender Twin Reverb

Question:

>     Hi guys i have a twin that is about 30 years old. It use to be > unusable until i changed the filter caps and made it work again. > However, the amp is not clean. it sounds distorted when i play it and > there is a very high pitch oscillation that occurs randomly. i am new at > tube stuff so any help would be grateful. > i was thinking of changing everything in the twins except the > transformer to brand new ones. what do you ppl think? > please let me know. > thanks

  Sounds to me like the amp is trashed and completely worthless.  Being the upstanding guy I am I will take it from you no charge and even pay the shipping cost. Let me know if you are interested. IceHouse

Response:

>    Hi guys i have a twin that is about 30 years old. It use to be >unusable until i changed the filter caps and made it work again. >However, the amp is not clean. it sounds distorted when i play it and >there is a very high pitch oscillation that occurs randomly. i am new at >tube stuff so any help would be grateful.

Maybe someone will post a quick fix solution to this but if not… Who did the cap job?  Would you trust them to take it back and look for the source of the distortion?  You could try changing all the tubes but, if you buy decent tubes, that could run into some money.  I feel that I can trust the folks to whom I take my amps to check things out and fix such a problem without incurring the cost of replacing nearly everything.  Not only is this less expensive but preserves as much of the vintage quality of the amp as is worth preserving.  If you’re looking for a reputable amp tech in your area I’d sugget posting your location.  I’ll bet some folks here could recommend someone. Sounds like you’ve got an amp with potential there. Good Luck, Scott McKnight – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->i was thinking of changing everything in the twins except the >transformer to brand new ones. what do you ppl think? >please let me know. >thanks

Response:

Headless, you been to the Rip VanWinkel Bridge?  Yeah take some wooden nickels.  Don’t change more than ya have to or it’ll be sterile.  Stay with it.    Peace Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     Hi guys i have a twin that is about 30 years old. It use to be > unusable until i changed the filter caps and made it work again. > However, the amp is not clean. it sounds distorted when i play it and > there is a very high pitch oscillation that occurs randomly. i am new at > tube stuff so any help would be grateful. > i was thinking of changing everything in the twins except the > transformer to brand new ones. what do you ppl think? > please let me know. > thanks >   Sounds to me like the amp is trashed and completely worthless.  Being the > upstanding guy I am I will take it from you no charge and even pay the > shipping cost. Let me know if you are interested. > IceHouse

Response:

    Hi guys i have a twin that is about 30 years old. It use to be unusable until i changed the filter caps and made it work again. However, the amp is not clean. it sounds distorted when i play it and there is a very high pitch oscillation that occurs randomly. i am new at tube stuff so any help would be grateful. i was thinking of changing everything in the twins except the transformer to brand new ones. what do you ppl think? please let me know. thanks

Response:

>     Hi guys i have a twin that is about 30 years old. It use to be > unusable until i changed the filter caps and made it work again. > However, the amp is not clean. it sounds distorted when i play it and > there is a very high pitch oscillation that occurs randomly. i am new at > tube stuff so any help would be grateful. > i was thinking of changing everything in the twins except the > transformer to brand new ones. what do you ppl think? > please let me know. > thanks

Call the Fender Hot Line! Ask them to recommend someone to look it over for you. http://www.timeelect.com/fender.htm The shotgun method of changing parts to repair an amplifier is time consuming, and not cost effective.  This method is most often used by the inexperienced owner/DIY’r.   When the amp finally finds itself on the repair bench of an experienced tech, He not only has the original problem to deal with, but now the results of the Owner’s Shotgun Blast! The charge for the repair will be a lot lower if the shotgun had been left in the closet. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com

Response:

>     Hi guys i have a twin that is about 30 years old. It use to be > unusable until i changed the filter caps and made it work again. > However, the amp is not clean. it sounds distorted when i play it and > there is a very high pitch oscillation that occurs randomly. i am new at > tube stuff so any help would be grateful. > i was thinking of changing everything in the twins except the > transformer to brand new ones. what do you ppl think? > please let me know. > thanks >I have been sevicing these amps a number of years. send me an email

Response:

A late 60’s/early 70s Twin is a good amp if you like volumne and it sould sound clean.  Here are the like issues: 1) Caps last about 10-15 years; I would do a full "cap job". 2) Anytime you fool around with the power supply you need to have the voltage levels rechecked; better yet have it scoped.  The filtering is based on the combined values of the caps and resisters in the circuit (RC).  (This could be the main issue) I’m assuming this thing has been sitting around a while. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     Hi guys i have a twin that is about 30 years old. It use to be > unusable until i changed the filter caps and made it work again. > However, the amp is not clean. it sounds distorted when i play it and > there is a very high pitch oscillation that occurs randomly. i am new at > tube stuff so any help would be grateful. > i was thinking of changing everything in the twins except the > transformer to brand new ones. what do you ppl think? > please let me know. > thanks >I have been sevicing these amps a number of years. send me an email

Response:

I’ve read that the design of the Twin Reverb was changed after CBS took over, because of some reliability problems.  The new circuit solved these problems but changed the sound.  Does anyone know the specifics of this circuit change (before and after)?                 Bob M

Response:

I wouldn’t bother with a post CBS twin, especially now that the 65′Twin Reissue is available. This is one awsome sounding machine. Cheers Jeremy Insull – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve read that the design of the Twin Reverb was changed after CBS took > over, because of some reliability problems.  The new circuit solved these > problems but changed the sound.  Does anyone know the specifics of this > circuit change (before and after)? >            Bob M

Response:

Excuse me?  I have played my blackface-modified ‘68 CBS Twin Reverb side-by-side with a "Reissue" Twin, and the Silverface amp kicks its ASS all over the place!!!  No comparison whatsoever.  Those reissue amps just do NOT have the tone!  The quality of the wiring and components ("paper-in-oil" capacitors?) sound much better in the Silverface amps, which can be easily modified to Blackface specs.  Don’t those reissue Twins have printed circut boards?  You must never have heard a good, modded, non-master Silverface Twin. —  Aaron "idecpharm") > I wouldn’t bother with a post CBS twin, especially now that the 65′Twin > Reissue is available. This is one awsome sounding machine. > Cheers > Jeremy Insull > I’ve read that the design of the Twin Reverb was changed after CBS took > over, because of some reliability problems.  The new circuit solved these > problems but changed the sound.  Does anyone know the specifics of this > circuit change (before and after)? >               Bob M

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Response:

> Excuse me?  I have played my blackface-modified ‘68 CBS Twin Reverb > side-by-side with a "Reissue" Twin, and the Silverface amp kicks its ASS > all over the place!!!  No comparison whatsoever.  Those reissue amps just > do NOT have the tone!  The quality of the wiring and components > ("paper-in-oil" capacitors?) sound much better in the Silverface amps, > which can be easily modified to Blackface specs.  Don’t those reissue Twins > have printed circut boards?  You must never have heard a good, modded, > non-master Silverface Twin.

Try a reissue, with the same speakers, and the same tubes, and I think you’ll find otherwise.  7581As in a reissue make a whole ‘nother animal. As for your statements regarding components, most SF Fenders have brown poly caps, far from the tone of paper.  And the wiring is usually not nearly as well done relative to the BFs, particularly the cable dress.  Try telling Randall Smith or Reinholdt Bogner that their amps suck because they use PC boards.

Response:

>Excuse me?  I have played my blackface-modified ‘68 CBS Twin Reverb >side-by-side with a "Reissue" Twin, and the Silverface amp kicks its ASS >all over the place!!!  No comparison whatsoever.  Those reissue amps just >do NOT have the tone!  The quality of the wiring and components >("paper-in-oil" capacitors?) sound much better in the Silverface amps,

I don’t think they are ‘paper in oil’. The construction of coupling capacitors in my ‘68 Fender was foil with thin plastic between it. (The .1micFarad, 600Volt ones for instance.) They make metallized film ones these days. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->which can be easily modified to Blackface specs.  Don’t those reissue Twins >have printed circut boards?  You must never have heard a good, modded, >non-master Silverface Twin.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Excuse me?  I have played my blackface-modified ‘68 CBS Twin Reverb > side-by-side with a "Reissue" Twin, and the Silverface amp kicks its ASS > all over the place!!!  No comparison whatsoever.  Those reissue amps just > do NOT have the tone!  The quality of the wiring and components > ("paper-in-oil" capacitors?) sound much better in the Silverface amps, > which can be easily modified to Blackface specs.  Don’t those reissue > Twins > have printed circut boards?  You must never have heard a good, modded, > non-master Silverface Twin. > Try a reissue, with the same speakers, and the same tubes, and I think > you’ll find otherwise.  7581As in a reissue make a whole ‘nother animal. > As for your statements regarding components, most SF Fenders have brown > poly caps, far from the tone of paper.  And the wiring is usually not > nearly as well done relative to the BFs, particularly the cable dress.  Try > telling Randall Smith or Reinholdt Bogner that their amps suck because they > use PC boards.

If you tried your ‘68 next to a new Reissue straight from the shop, the RI probably needed bias adjustment.  They seem to come with idle current set to 15ma per valve.  Bump the current up to 30ma and the difference is staggering. regards, John Van Buuren Canberra, Australia

Response:

I’ll tell Bogner and Randall Smith that…….And I’ll most definatly add MESSY BOOGER’S to the list!!! As a Warranty repair center, I’m SICK of working on those "quality PC boards"!!!!

Response:

I wasn’t aware that relative ease (or difficulty) of service made an amp good or bad.  Both Bogner and Mesa have made sufficient market penetration to justify their quality, as perceived by their users.  Hell, Boogies created an entire genre. Sound City amps were point-to-point wired and quite easy to service.  Does that make them good amps? Magnatone 280s are a bitch to troubleshoot.  Are they bad amps? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll tell Bogner and Randall Smith that…….And I’ll most definatly add > MESSY BOOGER’S to the list!!! As a Warranty repair center, I’m SICK of > working on those "quality PC boards"!!!!

Response:

 "I wasn’t aware that relative ease (or difficulty) of service made an amp good or bad.  Both Bogner and Mesa have made sufficient market penetration to justify their quality, as perceived by their users".      I guess to me a small detail called reliablility comes in to effect, when judging an amplifier.  Mesa tries to shove three amps into the area of one.  The pads and traces are so small that ANYONE who actually plays one of these things, will tell you that they are not durable "road worthy" amps!!  Not to mention the "atomic mesquito" tone which they produce.  And wannabe amp for more than the real thing?  Atleast then you’ll have great tone until it breaks down.   "just how much gain is too much"?  And as the PC board issue goes, see above paragraph. Alan Durham  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >  "I wasn’t aware that relative ease (or difficulty) of service made an amp > good or bad.  Both Bogner and Mesa have made sufficient market penetration > to justify their quality, as perceived by their users". >      I guess to me a small detail called reliablility comes in to effect, > when judging an amplifier.  Mesa tries to shove three amps into the area > of one.  The pads and traces are so small that ANYONE who actually plays > one of these things, will tell you that they are not durable "road worthy" > amps!!  Not to mention the "atomic mesquito" tone which they produce. And > wannabe amp for more than the real thing?  Atleast then you’ll have great > tone until it breaks down.   > "just how much gain is too much"?  And as the PC board issue goes, see > above paragraph. > Alan Durham  

I think you’ve made my point.  You’re judging Bogner and Mesa to be undesirable because YOU don’t like high-gain.  You’re also calling Mesas specifically and PCB amps in general unreliable because YOU don’t like PC boards.  Marshalls have been PC board since at least ‘76, but I don’t hear complaints about their reliability. I don’t like working on Boogies or new Fenders or anything with a dense PC board any more or less than anyone else, but I think the first judgement of an amp’s worth is its tone. Bob

Response:

*> when judging an amplifier.  Mesa tries to shove three amps into the area *> of one.  The pads and traces are so small that ANYONE who actually plays *> one of these things, will tell you that they are not durable "road *worthy" *> amps!!  Not to mention the "atomic mesquito" tone which they produce. *And OK,  I gotta comment now.. I haven’t seen one PCB in a guitar amp thats not workable.. My fields Television.  Try removing and soldering an 80 pin Sony CPU (surface mount) into a Digital  Betacam DVW-500..  I did it.. If I can, anyone can. My point being, with point to point wiring, you don’t worry about heat and holding the iron on the trace too long. There IS an art to soldering, and if done properly, PCB’s are no different from anything else.  Like everything, it takes practice! I for one don’t buy at all, this PCB’s don’t hold up on the road stuff..   Look, our photogs, like every other TV news crew on earth are totally abusal on thier gear.  Period.   Everything has a point of failure and abuse,  but damn, with ALL this stuff in a tape machine with multi layer PCB’s can hold up to this, I think a Marshall or a Fender with a SINGLE sided PCB can.  I truly believe that the people who hate PCB’s, just don’t know proper soldering techinics.. ( Flame on if you must, I am just making an observation ).. Yea, if you hold a 100 watt iron on a trace for 10 seconds, yep, its gonna come up.. Honestly and truly, there is nobody on the planet ( roadies included ) that is rougher and more careless with megabucks worth of electronics than TV news photog’s. Step into my shoes for a DAY and you will agree! Alan ( sig done like this to cut out the junk mail I get! ) I frequently visit SBS-6 and Galaxy K-4!

Response:

yeah, but unless those are some vintage ‘tube’ betacams, they don’t produce anywhere near the heat inside a guitar amp running a half-dozen or more tubes. that might have an impact on reliability.  if you’ve got to be careful soldering the PCB to avoid heat damage, then i would think the constant high temperatures inside the amp might also present a problem.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > *> when judging an amplifier.  Mesa tries to shove three amps into the > area > *> of one.  The pads and traces are so small that ANYONE who actually > plays > *> one of these things, will tell you that they are not durable "road > *worthy" > *> amps!!  Not to mention the "atomic mesquito" tone which they > produce. > *And > OK,  I gotta comment now.. I haven’t seen one PCB in a guitar amp > thats not workable.. > My fields Television.  Try removing and soldering an 80 pin Sony CPU > (surface mount) into a Digital  Betacam DVW-500..  I did it.. If I > can, anyone can. > My point being, with point to point wiring, you don’t worry about heat > and holding the iron on the trace too long. > There IS an art to soldering, and if done properly, PCB’s are no > different from anything else.  Like everything, it takes practice! > I for one don’t buy at all, this PCB’s don’t hold up on the road > stuff..   > Look, our photogs, like every other TV news crew on earth are totally > abusal on thier gear.  Period.   Everything has a point of failure and > abuse,  but damn, with ALL this stuff in a tape machine with multi > layer PCB’s can hold up to this, I think a Marshall or a Fender with a > SINGLE sided PCB can.  I truly believe that the people who hate PCB’s, > just don’t know proper soldering techinics.. ( Flame on if you must, > I am just making an observation ).. > Yea, if you hold a 100 watt iron on a trace for 10 seconds, yep, its > gonna come up.. > Honestly and truly, there is nobody on the planet ( roadies included ) > that is rougher and more careless with megabucks worth of electronics > than TV news photog’s. > Step into my shoes for a DAY and you will agree! > Alan > ( sig done like this to cut out the junk mail I get! ) > I frequently visit SBS-6 and Galaxy K-4!

Response:

They changed components in the power amps of post-CBS amps.   I modified a SF Twin to pre-CBS specs with the exception of the bias supply for the power tubes.  I also did some other stuff to this amp and it kicks butt. It cost me less than $20 in components and two hours of time  to completely work over the amp.

Response:

Well, finally, I’ve got it. It’s an 100W SF, JBL, svetlana tube (and a lot of types in preamp), it sounds good, for some 500$. Thanks to everyone here, for your advices, sugestions, and tips, it helped me, I’ll need you for more philosofy, when I study up my new pal ) Raul

Response:

Awesome, Raul.  Enjoy! TB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, finally, I’ve got it. It’s an 100W SF, JBL, svetlana tube (and a lot > of types in preamp), it sounds good, for some 500$. > Thanks to everyone here, for your advices, sugestions, and tips, it helped > me, I’ll need you for more philosofy, when I study up my new pal ) > Raul

Response:

Silverface 100 watt would make it a late 60’s-early 70’s, right?. the volume down! I can hear it from here!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, finally, I’ve got it. It’s an 100W SF, JBL, svetlana tube (and a lot > of types in preamp), it sounds good, for some 500$. > Thanks to everyone here, for your advices, sugestions, and tips, it helped > me, I’ll need you for more philosofy, when I study up my new pal ) > Raul

Response:

Just a thought….ever wonder about replacing those Oxford speakers? It is AMAZING how much better the twin will sound with better speakers. FWIW, I have used Weber Blue Dogs, Jensen C12N (ceramics) and also EXC JBL’s in my TR’s…the result? I could not believe how much better tone I had, and how crappy those Oxfords were until I did the comparison. If $ permits, you should someday try a speaker change…you will be happy you did! Enjoy that amp, one of the best! Sincerely, Chris Keklak – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Silverface 100 watt would make it a late 60’s-early 70’s, right?. > the volume down! I can hear it from here! > Well, finally, I’ve got it. It’s an 100W SF, JBL, svetlana tube (and a lot > of types in preamp), it sounds good, for some 500$. > Thanks to everyone here, for your advices, sugestions, and tips, it helped > me, I’ll need you for more philosofy, when I study up my new pal ) > Raul

Response:

Yes, I’ve thought about it. And I will eventually. The whole amp has to be done. I paid $450 for it. Even though it was fairly beat up it sounds damn good. And at the low volumes I use it at I won’t think about that until I redo the amp. Everything has to be done from a cap job right through new tolex. You gotta see the hack job someone did in trying to re-tolex this to Re-tolex an Amp" The first time I pulled the chassis out I couldn’t get it back in. The tolex was folded inside the cab and then stapled! I couldn’t get the chassis and the tolex back in. I finally had to do some snipping with a pair of scissors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a thought….ever wonder about replacing those Oxford speakers? It is > AMAZING how much better the twin will sound with better speakers. FWIW, I > have used Weber Blue Dogs, Jensen C12N (ceramics) and also EXC JBL’s in my > TR’s…the result? I could not believe how much better tone I had, and how > crappy those Oxfords were until I did the comparison. If $ permits, you > should someday try a speaker change…you will be happy you did! Enjoy that > amp, one of the best! > Sincerely, > Chris Keklak > Silverface 100 watt would make it a late 60’s-early 70’s, right?. > Same as mine but different speakers. Mine has

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the volume down! I can hear it from here! > > Well, finally, I’ve got it. It’s an 100W SF, JBL, svetlana tube (and a lot > > of types in preamp), it sounds good, for some 500$. > > Thanks to everyone here, for your advices, sugestions, and tips, it helped > > me, I’ll need you for more philosofy, when I study up my new pal ) > > Raul

Response:

Is there a FAQ for this group.  Or can someone point me to a sight that has some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin over another?  I live in a rich music town, so there are Twins from all ages all over, all the time.  I want one, mostly for jazz but occasionally to play loud, but don’t have a clue where to start. Thanks.

Response:

Try a 65 TwinReverb, best ones I’ve ever owned. Doug

Response:

|Is there a FAQ for this group.  Or can someone point me to a sight that has |some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin |over another?  I live in a rich music town, so there are Twins from all ages |all over, all the time.  I want one, mostly for jazz but occasionally to |play loud, but don’t have a clue where to start. There are several FAQs at http://aga.rru.com/ -> FAQs . You should check them out some time.  But they won’t cover this question.  Your best bets are: 1) Play a bunch and see what *you* like. 2) Do a search at http://groups.google.com/ 3) Check out user reviews at http://www.harmonycentral.com/    but take it all with a grain of salt. Come to think of it, take *everyone’s* advice with a grain (or a shaker full) of salt.  The best bet is still to try them yourself. Now, with some salt, I’d suggest a silver face Twin from 1970 or later.  Fender was trying to get them as clean as possible, so a later Twin should work better for you. Be cheaper, too!  You could try a new one, as well, but you might need to have it biased or retubed to really get it sounding its best.  Old amps obviously may need that, but many folks don’t realize that some new amps need it as well. -Miles

Response:

I suggest you visit the Fender Discussion Page (FDP) which is run as an independent site and has info on all things Fender. There are even message boards for pre (vintage) and post 1985 Fender amps. You’ll get lots of great advice there. http://www.fenderforum.com/ and select "Enter the FDP Forum" to take you to the list of message boards. You may also want to check out Harmony Central’s amp database reviews submitted by owners. http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/ and select "View Listing By Manufacturer". You’ll find Fender (and virtually all others) there. Click Fender and you’ll read review about almost every amp they ever made. Good luck. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there a FAQ for this group.  Or can someone point me to a sight that has > some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin > over another?  I live in a rich music town, so there are Twins from all ages > all over, all the time.  I want one, mostly for jazz but occasionally to > play loud, but don’t have a clue where to start. > Thanks.

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>Is there a FAQ for this group.  

http://aga.rru.com/ But I don’t recall it covering Twin questions. >Or can someone point me to a sight that has >some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin >over another?  I live in a rich music town, so there are Twins from all ages >all over, all the time.  I want one, mostly for jazz but occasionally to >play loud, but don’t have a clue where to start. >Thanks.

I’d say a good bet is one of the Silverface Twin Reverbs because it’ll be built better and have point to point wiring, so there’s some value to the thing that a newer Twin will never have.  A SF Twin also doesn’t cost all that much, there’re usually good deals to be found with those. I guess you could say that a Blackface Twin has more value, but I sort of question whether they really sound better, and then I think the newer Twins have gone back to the Blackface cosmetics, so just because you’re looking at a Twin with a Blackface faceplate, that in itself isn’t much of an indication of when it was actually manufactured.   And if it’s one of the newer Twins Blackface cosmetics, it’s going to be built like shit inside (in comparison to the old ones)  That’s not to say you couldn’t be happy with the sound of one of the newer Twins. But if there’s a lot of Twins in your town, you’ll have to get out there and start trying them out and see what you like. Pete

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> Is there a FAQ for this group.  Or can someone point me to a sight that has > some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin > over another?  I live in a rich music town, so there are Twins from all ages > all over, all the time.  I want one, mostly for jazz but occasionally to > play loud, but don’t have a clue where to start. > Thanks.

I have a blackface twin (a ‘67). It is loud enough to peel paint or bust out drywall. It is wonderful for jazz. The 70’s Twins have more "power" 100 or 135 watts to the blackface’s 85, which may give you more headroom, but not necessarily much more apparent volume. All work with a 4 6L6 output section; I’m not sure how the later models achieve the higher output, but I think it worth noting that in the late 60’s and into the 70’s the marketplace was dominated by claims of high-power, and Fender responded by tweaking the circuits. Not everyone thinks the changes were really improvements to the basic design. A blackface is likely to cost more than a silverface, especially a silverface with a master volume or one of the late 70’s 135 watt models. — Richard Franklin http://www.shufflocity.com

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‘65. LV – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Is there a FAQ for this group.  Or can someone point me to a sight that has > some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin > over another?  I live in a rich music town, so there are Twins from all ages > all over, all the time.  I want one, mostly for jazz but occasionally to > play loud, but don’t have a clue where to start. > Thanks.

Response:

The "Silver Face Twins" had higher plate voltages (beefer power supplies) and (atleast some) ran the outputs ultralinear aswell. This is (basically) how the Twin went from 85 to 100 to 135 watts. Like a few have allready mentioned for the most part it’s been down hill for the Twin since 65′… Lloyd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there a FAQ for this group.  Or can someone point me to a sight that > has > some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin > over another?  I live in a rich music town, so there are Twins from all > ages > all over, all the time.  I want one, mostly for jazz but occasionally to > play loud, but don’t have a clue where to start. > Thanks. > I have a blackface twin (a ‘67). It is loud enough to peel paint > or bust out drywall. It is wonderful for jazz. > The 70’s Twins have more "power" 100 or 135 watts to the > blackface’s 85, which may give you more headroom, but > not necessarily much more apparent volume. All work with > a 4 6L6 output section; I’m not sure how the later models > achieve the higher output, but I think it worth noting that in > the late 60’s and into the 70’s the marketplace was dominated > by claims of high-power, and Fender responded by tweaking > the circuits. Not everyone thinks the changes were really > improvements to the basic design. > A blackface is likely to cost more than a silverface, especially > a silverface with a master volume or one of the late 70’s > 135 watt models. > — > Richard Franklin > http://www.shufflocity.com

Response:

If you are looking to buy one, I have a pre 1964(pre CBS) Fender Twin for sale. Make me a reasonable offer! This amp is in mint condition. It’s almost as new without being new. I really can’t answer your question about the sonics, but you can call my friend Vinny. He knows the Fender line better than Fender

Response:

>I suggest you visit the Fender Discussion Page (FDP) which is run as an >independent site

Oh yeah, with all the money Fender gives to Greene, and all the freebie gear, you really think it’s truely "independent"?  FDP is, by far,  the MOST highly censored and over-moderated board on the web. >You’ll get lots of great >advice there.

As long as all you want to hear is pro-Fender, how great everything they do is, how Fender walks on water.  Anything else gets deleted and the poster gets booted off.  A LOT of the technical info I see posted there is just guys making wild-assed guesses.  Blind leading the blind.  Not many really knowledgable guys post there. >http://www.fenderforum.com/ and select "Enter the FDP Forum" to take you to >the list of message boards.

If you want realistic information, where both sides of an issue can be discussed, don’t bother with FDP. >You may also want to check out Harmony Central’s amp database reviews >submitted by owners.

Equally as useless.  You really expect to see an owner there post something like…"Jeez, I just bought a new XYZ amp and what a mistake that was.  It sounds like shit and blew up within 5 minutes". If you really want good info with all sides of the issue discussed, without the fear of being censored, go to Ampage, the Weber board, the Amp Workshop board or The Crossroads board. *You can guess what to remove from my email address to get rid of the spam block.* *Valid Targets:* *****

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>>Or can someone point me to a sight that has >some info on why I would want one particular year production of the Twin >over another?  I

Your best bet is an older blackface model.  If those are too pricey, go with an early silverface and have it modded back to blackface specs. Any amp that old, will need to be properly serviced if you want it to sound it’s best and be reliable. *You can guess what to remove from my email address to get rid of the spam block.* *Valid Targets:* *****

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>This is (basically) how the Twin went from 85 to 100 to 135 watts.

The 135 Watters used the "dreaded" ultralinear output circuit, high voltages, and usually sound kind of hard and sterile.  The 85 – 100 Watters can all be made to sound good. >Like a few have allready mentioned for the most part it’s been down hill for >the Twin since 65′…

The amps from 66 and 67 are the same as the 65s.  The shit hit the fan in 68. BUT, they can be converted back very easily. *You can guess what to remove from my email address to get rid of the spam block.* *Valid Targets:* *****

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> >You may also want to check out Harmony Central’s amp database reviews >submitted by owners. > Equally as useless.  You really expect to see an owner there post something > like…"Jeez, I just bought a new XYZ amp and what a mistake that was.  It > sounds like shit and blew up within 5 minutes".

You can usually tell the degree of honesty and knowledgeability of the reviewer by looking at the a. the way he reviews the amp (is he critical enough, if he gives a 10 for everything you know that there’s something wrong) b. how long he has been playing c. what kind of guitar he is playing with the amp and what kind of music he plays. Works for me. And I’ve seen quotes like the one you mention too on Harmony-Central. Igor

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>> >You may also want to check out Harmony Central’s amp database reviews > >submitted by owners. > Equally as useless.  You really expect to see an owner there post >something > like…"Jeez, I just bought a new XYZ amp and what a mistake that was.  It > sounds like shit and blew up within 5 minutes". >You can usually tell the degree of honesty and knowledgeability of the >reviewer by looking at the >a. the way he reviews the amp (is he critical >enough, if he gives a 10 for everything you know that there’s something >wrong)

I agree.   Sometimes people like something a whole lot in the first week they own it, but it isn’t all that great after they’ve owned it for a while.  Also, there seems to be people who give glowing reviews to an amp that they’re selling. >b. how long he has been playing

How long the reviewer CLAIMS to be a guitar player doesn’t mean jack shit.   There seems to be several people here at aga who think lying about how long they’ve been playing lends them validity, but it doesn’t.  I’d ignore how long they claim to have been playing guitar, people tend to add years to that figure as a form of boasting. >c. what kind of guitar he is playing >with the amp and what kind of music he plays. Works for me.

True I think. >And I’ve seen quotes like the one you mention too on Harmony-Central. >Igor

I do have Harm Central bookmarked, and I do look through there sometimes when I’m wondering what that amp is someone’s talking about, but I try not to rely on the reviews for much, but they can be useful. Pete

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Try here in the FAQ section http://zen.org/~ware/ffg/ffg.html DS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello, Where on my Fender Twin Reverb amp can I find in what year it was > made???? > Thnx in advance, > Tijmen

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There is a similar thread like this a few pages up under Vibro Champ Q, no one seemed to know how to translate the chasis serial # or tranny #s, if there is a way to do that.  If it’s blackface it’s 63′-67′, if there is an aluminum frame around the grille, it’s a 68′, if it’s got a master volume, thats somewhere around 75′ or latter.  Look at the pots inside, they are CTS if the first three #s are 137, the next digit is the year. EX, 1373=73′, if it was made with old parts it could be latter than that, but not visa versa, EX 1373= not BEFORE 73′.

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o yeah, the stamp on the tube chart, you’ll have to look that up in Weber’s book, but there are two letters, like OH, that would be an amp buit in 65′.

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I recently bought a used Fender Twin Reverb, and I was wondering if anyone knew what the connector on the back labelled ‘Hum Balance’ was used for.  I have no manuals, and the amp has exhibited some sort of hum, not attributable to the single coil pickups on my guitar.  Also, does anyone know roughly what range of years the silver face models were made between?  I’d like to try and fix a date to my amp, just out of curiousity.  Can anyone help me with finding the production date of my amp (ie. anyone have any books)  I know Fender has put out a book about their amps, but I haven’t been able to find it locally, and I was hoping I would not have to order it…                 Jason Rosinski

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I recently bought a used Fender Twin Reverb, and I was wondering if >anyone knew what the connector on the back labelled ‘Hum Balance’ was >used for.  I have no manuals, and the amp has exhibited some sort of >hum, not attributable to the single coil pickups on my guitar.  Also, >does anyone know roughly what range of years the silver face models were >made between?  I’d like to try and fix a date to my amp, just out of >curiousity.  Can anyone help me with finding the production date of my >amp (ie. anyone have any books)  I know Fender has put out a book about >their amps, but I haven’t been able to find it locally, and I was hoping >I would not have to order it… >            Jason Rosinski

Lord Valve Speaketh: Jason, that ain’t no connector.  It’s a screwdriver-adjustable pot…look into the hole with a flashlight and you’ll see the slot in the end of the recessed shaft.  Since your Twin has this control, I’m going to assume that it’s a Master Vol Twin with the outside-accessible bias balance adjustment; this is another screwdriver-adjustable pot which balances the bias current on both phases of the output section. It will be labled "OUTPUT TUBES–MATCHING".  Here’s the procedure for adjusting both of those controls: First, the HUM BALANCE control…plug your guitar into the amp (make sure the guitar is turned up to where you’d normally have it), turn up the controls to where you like them (at stage volume), and then unplug the guitar. (Make sure you remove the guitar cord from the AMP, NOT the guitar!)  Now, you can "tune" the HUM BALANCE control for minimum hum; you’ll find a spot somewhere on the pot’s rotation where the hum will disappear (if you’re lucky) or it will be minimized.  Now, the OUTPUT TUBES–MATCHING control…turn EVERY control on the amp ALL THE WAY DOWN.  Now, you can "tune" this control for minimum hum just the way you did with the HUM BALANCE control.  If you really want to fine this adjustment down, do it with a set of headphones plugged into the EXT. SPKR jack, at three in the morning when your house is dead quiet. (You’ll only be able to hear the hum in one ear, so pick your ‘best’ one.)  You may also want to go back and forth with these two adjustments two or three times, until you achieve the absolute minimum hum your amp is capable of.  If, after you do this, you still have objectionable hum levels, take it to a tech.  And REMEMBER…an amplifier is a very stupid device; none of ‘em can tell hum from rock’n'roll…if you put hum IN (from your guitar), your amp will gleefully amplify it like any other signal you feed it.  Always check for hum with your guitar UNPLUGGED from the amp…unless, of course, you’re looking for hum IN the guitar. I don’t know jack-shit about guitars, so this is where I get off…      :) Lord Valve  

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> Jason, that ain’t no connector.  It’s a screwdriver-adjustable > pot…look into the hole with a flashlight and you’ll see the slot in > the end of the recessed shaft.  Since your Twin has this control, I’m > going to assume that it’s a Master Vol Twin with the outside-accessible > bias balance adjustment; this is another screwdriver-adjustable pot > which balances the bias current on both phases of the output section. > It will be labled "OUTPUT TUBES–MATCHING".  Here’s the procedure for > adjusting both of those controls:

        Thanks a lot, I’ll give it a shot!  Do you have any clue what years these amps were made between?  I’ve got some numbers on the amp that may help, but I haven’t been able to find the ones on the transformer that Fender recommends finding.  I haven’t really wanted to unscrew the output transformer…                 Jason Rosinski

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Hello all and thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.  I am new here, but I have learned a lot in short time.  I just got done unpacking my brand new (to me) Fender Twin Reverb (70’s I think).  I’m trying to find the most out about this amp I can, i.e. year made, 100 or 135W etc. Is there a site that has things broken down by serial number? What would be the first things I could do to improve the sound of this amp? GDis

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> Hello all and thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.  I am new > here, but I have learned a lot in short time.  I just got done unpacking my > brand new (to me) Fender Twin Reverb (70’s I think).  I’m trying to find the > most out about this amp I can, i.e. year made, 100 or 135W etc. Is there a > site that has things broken down by serial number? > What would be the first things I could do to improve the sound of this amp? > GDis

Here’s a great place to start researching your new (old) Fender twin: http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/ The first thing to do with an old amp is make sure it is up to original specifications, try it out and THEN decide IF it needs improving upon! John King http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/rockinamps.html

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What John said.   Also – when you use the word "improve" it implies that you’ve determined that it’s lacking in some way.  If that’s the case then you should say what you want to see improved about it.  If you mean "what do people usually do to upgrade these puppies?" (and I suspect that’s what you mean) here’s a list of possible changes: 1. Black face mod – changes circuitry so that it’s closer to the design used in black face-era amps. 2. Pentode/Triode switch – changes circuitry so that tubes are being used differently.  Results in 100 watt Twins putting out closer to 60 watts.  Allows you to crank the amp a little more without being quite so deafening. 3. Run both channels through tremolo – there’s a name for this mod but I forget it.  Equal Weighting?  Anyway, I’ve done this with my Twin and others do it with other Fenders.  If you wanted to use an A/B switch to switch between channels (e.g., for rhythm and lead levels) or if you do as I do and plug different guitars into the different channels so you can switch back and forth without replugging… and if you want tremolo on both channels… then you do this mod.  It also brings both channels in phase with each other so you can jumper channels to play through both at the same time.  If you want your Twin to be even louder than it is already you could do it by jumpering. 4. Tube upgrades – preamp, power tubes, etc.  You probably uderstand this already. 5. Speaker upgrades – A lot of people think you can improve on the stock Oxford Speakers that come in most Silver Faced Twins. I’ve done 1-4 and are getting ready to do 5.  Number 2 was extremely helpful for me.  Number 3 has made my life easier but might not be that much a difference for others.  Number 4 just sort of came about as a matter of course.  Number 1 I did because at the time everyone I talked to said it’s an improvement.  I’ve heard Twins that didn’t have this done, or which only had it partially done, that sounded good to me. Good luck, Scott McKnight – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all and thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.  I am new > here, but I have learned a lot in short time.  I just got done unpacking my > brand new (to me) Fender Twin Reverb (70’s I think).  I’m trying to find the > most out about this amp I can, i.e. year made, 100 or 135W etc. Is there a > site that has things broken down by serial number? > What would be the first things I could do to improve the sound of this amp? > GDis >Here’s a great place to start researching your new (old) >Fender twin: >http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/ >The first thing to do with an old amp is make sure it is >up to original specifications, try it out and THEN decide >IF it needs improving upon! >John King >http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/rockinamps.html

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purchased a 1970 Silverfaced Fender Twin. Unfortunately the amp is in Florida for the summer. It came with mismatched power tubes. The cabinet isn’t in great shape either. Someone tried to re-tolex it. Shitty job. The casters look as if they are going to fall off. Faceplate is so bad I can’t read any descriptions on it. sounded  great!  When I get back down to Florida in October the tubes will comeout, I have 2 matched  pairs of Svetlana 6L6GC’s from Lord Valve I’ll put in. The pre-amp tubes I’ll play aound with. Various 12AX7, 12AT7, and 5851’s. Scott’s suggestion about the Pentode/Triode switch  is an interesting idea, as is running both channels through the tremolo. I just might have to try it!  Good luck with your amp!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all and thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.  I am new > here, but I have learned a lot in short time.  I just got done unpacking my > brand new (to me) Fender Twin Reverb (70’s I think).  I’m trying to find the > most out about this amp I can, i.e. year made, 100 or 135W etc. Is there a > site that has things broken down by serial number? > What would be the first things I could do to improve the sound of this amp? > GDis

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>Hello all and thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.  I am new >here, but I have learned a lot in short time.  I just got done unpacking my >brand new (to me) Fender Twin Reverb (70’s I think).  I’m trying to find the >most out about this amp I can, i.e. year made, 100 or 135W etc. Is there a >site that has things broken down by serial number? >What would be the first things I could do to improve the sound of this amp? >GDis

I found what I was looking for earlier.  This page has a pretty handy-dandy list of things you might want to do to a Fender amp.  Look under "Repairs/Modifications include but are not limited to:"  This is a list of things that this guy (Mike Kropotkin) does.  You could probably find someone near you to do them if you wanted.  FWIW, Mike did the work on my Twin Reverb and Dual Showman Reverb and did a great job IMO. http://users.erols.com/bluestat/mods.html -Scott McKnight

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> purchased a 1970 Silverfaced Fender Twin. Unfortunately the amp is in > Florida for the summer. > It came with mismatched power tubes. The cabinet isn’t in great shape > either. Someone tried to re-tolex it. Shitty job. The casters look as if > they are going to fall off. Faceplate is so bad I can’t read any > descriptions on it. > sounded  great!  When I get back down to Florida in October the tubes will > comeout, I have 2 matched  pairs of Svetlana 6L6GC’s from Lord Valve I’ll > put in. The pre-amp tubes I’ll play aound with. Various 12AX7, 12AT7, and > 5851’s. Scott’s suggestion about the Pentode/Triode switch  is an > interesting idea, as is running both channels through the tremolo. I just > might have to try it!  Good luck with your amp!

man… I musta bought a really crappy 70’s Fender Twin Reverb years ago, or bought the wrong amp for my style of playing cause I absolutely hated it.   – No master volume so the only way to get overdrive (in the 70’s) was to use ‘fuzz’ pedals that sounded awful.   – a constant buzz from the badly constructed cabinet -if you reached around behind it and touched the standby switch while you were holding the guitar strings you got an electric shock  (not fun on stage) – the speakers blew… got em reconed…blew again… and again ..finally replaced the speakers with JBL’s and the amp was so heavy the wheels broke off and it ruined my back for life. I switched to a Marshall with an attenuator and finally realized what a rock amp was supposed to sound like. Peace & Grooviness schmange Schmange’s Guitar Tricks http://www.schmange.com Thursday, May 9, 2002 6:45:53 PM  Posted with Hogwasher. Mac first, Mac only:      http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recently > purchased a 1970 Silverfaced Fender Twin. Unfortunately the amp is in > Florida for the summer. > It came with mismatched power tubes. The cabinet isn’t in great shape > either. Someone tried to re-tolex it. Shitty job. The casters look as if > they are going to fall off. Faceplate is so bad I can’t read any > descriptions on it. it > sounded  great!  When I get back down to Florida in October the tubes will > comeout, I have 2 matched  pairs of Svetlana 6L6GC’s from Lord Valve I’ll > put in. The pre-amp tubes I’ll play aound with. Various 12AX7, 12AT7, and > 5851’s. Scott’s suggestion about the Pentode/Triode switch  is an > interesting idea, as is running both channels through the tremolo. I just > might have to try it!  Good luck with your amp! > man… I musta bought a really crappy 70’s Fender Twin Reverb years ago, or > bought the wrong amp for my style of playing cause I absolutely hated it. > – No master volume so the only way to get overdrive (in the 70’s) was to use > ‘fuzz’ pedals that sounded awful. > – a constant buzz from the badly constructed cabinet > -if you reached around behind it and touched the standby switch while you > were holding the guitar strings you got an electric shock  (not fun on stage) > – the speakers blew… got em reconed…blew again… and again > ..finally replaced the speakers with JBL’s and the amp was so heavy the > wheels broke off and it ruined my back for life. > I switched to a Marshall with an attenuator and finally realized what a rock > amp was supposed to sound like. > Peace & Grooviness > schmange > Schmange’s Guitar Tricks > http://www.schmange.com > Thursday, May 9, 2002 > 6:45:53 PM >  Posted with Hogwasher. Mac first, Mac only: >      http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > man… I musta bought a really crappy 70’s Fender Twin Reverb years ago, or > bought the wrong amp for my style of playing cause I absolutely hated it. > – No master volume so the only way to get overdrive (in the 70’s) was to use > ‘fuzz’ pedals that sounded awful. > – a constant buzz from the badly constructed cabinet > -if you reached around behind it and touched the standby switch while you > were holding the guitar strings you got an electric shock  (not fun on stage) > – the speakers blew… got em reconed…blew again… and again > ..finally replaced the speakers with JBL’s and the amp was so heavy the > wheels broke off and it ruined my back for life.

Yup, sounds like the Twin allright. I love Em.

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>Hello all and thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.  I am new >here, but I have learned a lot in short time.  I just got done unpacking my >brand new (to me) Fender Twin Reverb (70’s I think).  I’m trying to find the >most out about this amp I can, i.e. year made, 100 or 135W etc. Is there a >site that has things broken down by serial number?

First things first. You have some new thing there that you wish to know better. As Sherlock would suggest proceed from the known toward the unknown, noting things along the way. The first and best source of information is sitting right there.  If you look at the back panel you’ll see to speaker jacks. under them will be some writing. That will tell you if it’s a 100 or 135W model. While you’re there, notice whether the chassis has a metal lip screwed to the top panel of the cab (if you need me to explain you don’t have it). Read everything. Look around in there. Yeah yeah you don’t know what to look for. Of course not. Until you start looking for things you won’t know what to look for. Go around to the other side, whatchasee?  Got a master volume? Pull on it. Anything happen. Howabout the other knobs? Turn it on. Leave it on standby for awhile. That’s good practice anyway. Give it about 5 minutes. In the meanwhile keep looking, and smelling. Any new ones. Tubes all glowy and happy. Engage. What noises do you get? Any tubes flash up real bright. Blue glows in the power tubes. Get real primate about this strange thing in your habitat. >What would be the first things I could do to improve the sound of this amp?

Plugging a guitar in. As a tech I am really focussed on three questions: 1 – whatcha got? 2 – Whatsit doing? 3 – Whadaya want it to do? Oh, and just to satisfy the tweaking imperative, you can swap your preamp tubes around.  Try swapping the two 12AT7s see if things get better or worse. Try rotating the 12AX7s, any joy. Not much point if they’re all the same brand and vintage, but that hardly ever happens. Ron

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Sweet!  Thanks for all the info.  I will start switching 12AT7’s around and experiment.  You would think I would have pulled out the master volume switch, but it never occurred to me! All this info should keep me busy for a while. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello all and thanks to everyone who contributes to this board.  I am new >here, but I have learned a lot in short time.  I just got done unpacking my >brand new (to me) Fender Twin Reverb (70’s I think).  I’m trying to find the >most out about this amp I can, i.e. year made, 100 or 135W etc. Is there a >site that has things broken down by serial number? > First things first. You have some new thing there that you wish to > know better. As Sherlock would suggest proceed from the known toward > the unknown, noting things along the way. > The first and best source of information is sitting right there.  If > you look at the back panel you’ll see to speaker jacks. under them > will be some writing. That will tell you if it’s a 100 or 135W model. > While you’re there, notice whether the chassis has a metal lip screwed > to the top panel of the cab (if you need me to explain you don’t have > it). Read everything. Look around in there. Yeah yeah you don’t know > what to look for. Of course not. Until you start looking for things > you won’t know what to look for. > Go around to the other side, whatchasee?  Got a master volume? Pull on > it. Anything happen. Howabout the other knobs? > Turn it on. Leave it on standby for awhile. That’s good practice > anyway. Give it about 5 minutes. In the meanwhile keep looking, and > smelling. Any new ones. Tubes all glowy and happy. > Engage. What noises do you get? Any tubes flash up real bright. Blue > glows in the power tubes. > Get real primate about this strange thing in your habitat. >What would be the first things I could do to improve the sound of this amp? > Plugging a guitar in. > As a tech I am really focussed on three questions: > 1 – whatcha got? > 2 – Whatsit doing? > 3 – Whadaya want it to do? > Oh, and just to satisfy the tweaking imperative, you can swap your > preamp tubes around.  Try swapping the two 12AT7s see if things get > better or worse. Try rotating the 12AX7s, any joy. Not much point if > they’re all the same brand and vintage, but that hardly ever happens. > Ron

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