Chinese amps?
Question:
I don’t want this post to get in to a political realm if possible. I see that many popular amps are now being made in China. Even Fender’s. I’m not against buying foreign made gear. I have an Olp, made in China, bass that I like a lot. Been gigging with it off and on for over 2 years now. First off…. Why are we being bombarded with everything from underwear to guitars that are made in China? Are we supporting 3rd world countries but buying this stuff? Or are we supporting US companies that have strong interests in Chinese made products? What is the difference between an amp made in the US, Mexico or China? Pt
Response:
> I don’t want this post to get in to a political realm if possible. > I see that many popular amps are now being made in China. > Even Fender’s. > I’m not against buying foreign made gear. > I have an Olp, made in China, bass that I like a lot. > Been gigging with it off and on for over 2 years now. > First off…. > Why are we being bombarded with everything from underwear to guitars > that are made in China?
Lotsa reasons. Mostly the fact that it’s CHEAPER to produce it in China, and most Americans will make compromises (quality AND ethics) when it comes to saving money. > Are we supporting 3rd world countries but buying this stuff?
I absolutely HATE the fact that Americans are transferring our wealth to China. The Chinese president was in Seattle, yesterday. I’m glad to hear about $16.2 BILLION in recent Chinese contracts for Boeing (China is a major buyer of Boeing jets), but that’s a drop in the bucket when it comes to the trade deficit. Make no mistake about it, in a short time, China could be the richest country in the world. Americans either don’t care, or they’re too stupid to see it coming. > Or are we supporting US companies that have strong interests in > Chinese made products?
When you buy Chinese, you are supporting a government that made Google agree to unplug certain searches originating from China, including "freedom" and "tiananmen square." Worker protections common in the US are nonexistent in China. They use prison labor and children. They rotate the workforce around the country. There is no job security. You are buying products formerly made in America, and in other more developed countries. But now you give your money to Communist China. I’m not an expert, but Tibetans were protesting yesterday in Seattle, claiming ongoing abuse and murder in their homeland. Some want to see a positive side. They argue that since China really wants our money, our trade can be used as a catalyst for change. But > What is the difference between an amp made in the US, Mexico or China?
The above is a good enough reason for me to do my best to NOT buy Chinese. Several years ago, I refused to buy Chinese. At first, it was just an inconvenience. Try buying kids their Christmas gifts if you can’t buy from China. …reasonably priced shoes. But now it’s IMPOSSIBLE to boycott China. I *need* a computer. Try buying one with no Chinese components! It’s not just substandard clothing and shoes, they now make high tech products. …and it’s a crying shame that more Americans didn’t care. Now it’s too late. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Pt
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t want this post to get in to a political realm if possible. > I see that many popular amps are now being made in China. > Even Fender’s. > I’m not against buying foreign made gear. > I have an Olp, made in China, bass that I like a lot. > Been gigging with it off and on for over 2 years now. > First off…. > Why are we being bombarded with everything from underwear to guitars > that are made in China? > Lotsa reasons. Mostly the fact that it’s CHEAPER to produce it in China, > and most Americans will make compromises (quality AND ethics) when it > comes to saving money.
I think it’s a global thing. Everywhere people do that. They don’t buy the fridge from the local guy’s family-run store, they buy it from a big chain because they sell it $50 cheaper. How can they sell ‘em cheaper? 1. They pay low wages to their employees, mostly young people, students and such. 2. They buy in huge quantities and – you guessed it – models made in cheap workforce countries. It may be crap, but hey – it’s cheap and they’ve a great credit system and besides the warranties are excellent. Do people care where they buy from? No. They just mail-order the cheapest they can get, forgetting about supporting your local communities. This way the local stores go slowly out of business – I’ve seen that happen over the last 20 years store by store around where I live, and it results in more and more people being unemployed and not being able to afford to buy much or pay taxes. Which leads to the city running low on wealth, which ends up in shutting down schools and healthcare centers and whatnot. I myself am struggling to keep myself employed as the places diminish every year. Pretty soon the whole district is devoid of private small companies, and with them, also the entrepreneurs, doctors, lawyers etc. go and there’s but unemployed people around. I’ve seen that happen suburb by suburb here. First there’s 3 or 4 food stores, a drug store, plenty of kiosks, a post office and a burger joint and a veterinarian and so on. They build a new hypermart 3 miles away. Give it 5 years, everybody’s got the hypermart’s bonus cards and shop there; gone is the vet, all but one food store which seems dying too, all the kiosks and post and the burger place was converted into a bar now filled with unemployed people every night. I’ve made a solemn vow not to ever buy a single piece of equipment and as little foodstuffs from any of the hypermarts because I know for a fact that the money I spend there does NOT stay in my community but only builds the empire of a multinational company who couldn’t care less about their business as long as their stockholders are happy. Now there’s been a lot of talk about the supermarts not using local factories anymore, and shutting down their local subsidiary proviver companies because they can get the stuff cheaper imported. When asked the bosses of the chains don’t understand what is the problem. They simply say that their responsibility lies in providing wealth for their stock owners, and that means cutting down on factories that do not provide maximum profits. They’ve shut down plants that actually make good profits, only because they can relocate their manufacturing processes to China etc. and make even BIGGER profits. And they also freely admit that. There’s nothing wrong with making the most benefits for the stockowners. I just can’t believe people don’t seem to get this but still keep on flocking at these megastores hunting down every bargain, completely missing the big picture.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t want this post to get in to a political realm if possible. >I see that many popular amps are now being made in China. >Even Fender’s. >I’m not against buying foreign made gear. >I have an Olp, made in China, bass that I like a lot. >Been gigging with it off and on for over 2 years now. >First off…. >Why are we being bombarded with everything from underwear to guitars >that are made in China? > I will speak for my country.
Where are you from?
Response:
>First off…. >Why are we being bombarded with everything from underwear to guitars >that are made in China?
China is downplaying that. They don’t want to be known the world’s manufacturing plant; they are branching into entertainment, banking, energy, and foreign investments. As for being bombarded, 80% of everything Walmart sells is made in Chiner. So who do we have to blame? Us as consumers. >Are we supporting 3rd world countries but buying this stuff?
Hey Pat, I thought you wanted to keep it out of the politcal realm 
- Of course, the oen that benefits most from foreign investment/spending is the government of the host country, in this case Chiner. They have a military they need to fund just like us. So the mroe the world spends, the better their government is funded. >Or are we supporting US companies that have strong interests in >Chinese made products?
That, too, imo. We have lots of US jobs directly and indirectly tied to Chiner manufacturing. Whether they are good jobs or not is debatable. >What is the difference between an amp made in the US, Mexico or China?
At the very least, price, quality of parts, perceived quality of overall construction. Greg
Response:
Jim schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I don’t want this post to get in to a political realm if possible. >> I see that many popular amps are now being made in China. >> Even Fender’s. >> I’m not against buying foreign made gear. >> I have an Olp, made in China, bass that I like a lot. >> Been gigging with it off and on for over 2 years now. >> First off…. >> Why are we being bombarded with everything from underwear to guitars >> that are made in China? > I will speak for my country. > Where are you from?
Greece?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t want this post to get in to a political realm if possible. > I see that many popular amps are now being made in China. > Even Fender’s. > I’m not against buying foreign made gear. > I have an Olp, made in China, bass that I like a lot. > Been gigging with it off and on for over 2 years now. > First off…. > Why are we being bombarded with everything from underwear to guitars > that are made in China? > Lotsa reasons. Mostly the fact that it’s CHEAPER to produce it in China, > and most Americans will make compromises (quality AND ethics) when it > comes to saving money. > Are we supporting 3rd world countries but buying this stuff? > I absolutely HATE the fact that Americans are transferring our wealth to > China. The Chinese president was in Seattle, yesterday. I’m glad to hear > about $16.2 BILLION in recent Chinese contracts for Boeing (China is a > major buyer of Boeing jets), but that’s a drop in the bucket when it comes > to the trade deficit. > Make no mistake about it, in a short time, China could be the richest > country in the world. Americans either don’t care, or they’re too stupid > to see it coming. > Or are we supporting US companies that have strong interests in > Chinese made products? > When you buy Chinese, you are supporting a government that made Google > agree to unplug certain searches originating from China, including > "freedom" and "tiananmen square." Worker protections common in the US are > nonexistent in China. They use prison labor and children. They rotate > the workforce around the country. There is no job security. > You are buying products formerly made in America, and in other more > developed countries. But now you give your money to Communist China. I’m > not an expert, but Tibetans were protesting yesterday in Seattle, claiming > ongoing abuse and murder in their homeland. > Some want to see a positive side. They argue that since China really > wants our money, our trade can be used as a catalyst for change. But what > What is the difference between an amp made in the US, Mexico or China? > The above is a good enough reason for me to do my best to NOT buy Chinese. > Several years ago, I refused to buy Chinese. At first, it was just an > inconvenience. Try buying kids their Christmas gifts if you can’t buy > from China. …reasonably priced shoes. But now it’s IMPOSSIBLE to > boycott China. I *need* a computer. Try buying one with no Chinese > components! It’s not just substandard clothing and shoes, they now make > high tech products. …and it’s a crying shame that more Americans didn’t > care. Now it’s too late. > Pt
Apparently China makes more American flags than everyone else put together!
Response:
>What is the difference between an amp made in the US, Mexico or China?
I would say the further down the feeding chain the overall quality goes down … But then again : www.ebay.com item=7408341449 A Gibson Les Paul for $5 USA. Who can tell ?
Response:
> but does little for the working people in either country.
Beg to differ .. Offshoring helps the mud hut, bare footed, rice paddy Chinese farmer move up the food chain into a wooden shack then displaces American middle income industrial technies from homesteaders to homeless. Some companies like Toyota and Honda have the business savy to produce products here in the States at likely a higher cost (?) ,,, but that made in America status has certainly helped them sell it, unfortunately at the demise of GM.
Response:
>>What is the difference between an amp made in the US, Mexico or China? > I would say the further down the feeding chain the overall quality > goes > down … But then again : > www.ebay.com item=7408341449 > A Gibson Les Paul for $5 USA. > Who can tell ?
Thanks for the laugh! Seller has sold a handful of CHEAP items. Feedback? Positive 15, but it seems like MANY of the sales resulting in positive feedback on were auctions that were CANCELED by ebay??? Why would that happen? Selling to himself with two accounts? Don’t know… After the canceled auctions, several neutrals for failure to give shipping costs. So, with this rather dubious 15 positive rating, he now floods ebay with 216 items up for auction, including a "new" Gibson Les Paul from Beijing (along with 20 other guitars, some Gibson, some Epiphone, Ibanez…)? NO THANKS! I’ll rate that one "just a bit too risky." But cha gotta love his auction titles!: "fair-sounding very best distinct electric guitar" "Magnificent admirab extraordi 7 string electric guitar" "SUPERB extraordin electric guitar present wonderfulgift"
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I was signed up to buy a Epiphone Double Neck for $28 , but shipping was $350 … and my better half talked (… um..) me out of it. I was thinking I could flip it quickly .. double my investment . but then I would be turning into *one of them* ebaitors that I hate so much. Those descriptions are great. Must have ran it through a translator.
Response:
>>I absolutely HATE the fact that Americans are transferring our wealth to >China. The Chinese president was in Seattle, yesterday. I’m glad to >hear about $16.2 BILLION in recent Chinese contracts for Boeing (China >is a major buyer of Boeing jets), but that’s a drop in the bucket when >it comes to the trade deficit. > I wonder if the Chinese have the common arrangement of building the > planes in China? That way they get the technology as well as the planes. > Next time they’ll build them themselves.
They already are… >Make no mistake about it, in a short time, China could be the richest >country in the world. Americans either don’t care, or they’re too >stupid to see it coming. > Plenty of people see it coming. However, individual companies are free > to do as they see fit, and there is very little anyone can do about it. > Anyone that complains is called a communist or a protectionist. > Globization is great for large multinational companies but does little > for the average people of this country and the world.
That’s bunk. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Or are we supporting US companies that have strong interests in >>Chinese made products? >When you buy Chinese, you are supporting a government that made Google >agree to unplug certain searches originating from China, including >"freedom" and "tiananmen square." Worker protections common in the US >are nonexistent in China. They use prison labor and children. They >rotate the workforce around the country. There is no job security. > Even "free" workers don’t get much. Last week PBS ran a show on the > "Tank Man" from Tiananmen Square. In it they interviewed several factory > and construction workers. All said they worked 17 hours a day 7 days a > week (no days off). The best paid got $160 a month. If they missed a day > for any reason, they lost their jobs (recall the movie Soylent Green). > Each worker must cover any illness or injury cost (job related or not) > themselves. At least, I wouldn’t feel so angry if the money was passing > down through the system. But, much like what is happening more and more > in this country, it is staying with the wealthy. The Chinese government > is working very hard to keep wages very low so foreign companies won’t > leave for lower wages, as they have done in other countries. These low > wages permeate the system, not just the folks building the amp but the > people building all the component parts and the people supplying all the > needed services used in building that amp.
Wait, this is the *system* that’s supposed to become the richist in the world..??? Per capita…??? Unfortunatly for the Chinese public, they don’t have a history of unions… > I have personal experience with job loss to Chinese. My small company > folded last year after 31 years in business. A large American company > started having exact copies of our product (no longer protected by a > patent) made in China and selling them at 66% of my price. I calculated > that I could meet that price but the company would make less than $1 per > unit. We were competitive with US companies with similar cost but not > with the cheap labor in China.
Yep… that happens. It happened to all the textile mills up in New England, when the *cheap* southern workers caused the textile industry to move south. All the northern mills shut down. The northerners weren’t too happy either. The *remnants* (no pun intended) of the textile industry can still be seen in the apartment/condos that used to be mills. And before this, it happened to the textile mills in England… they were ‘undercut’ by the mills in the North-eastern US which had cheaper labor than England… now everyones worried about Viet Nam… it’s got REALLY cheap labor and is starting to get into textile manufacturing… Textiles ‘leads’ the way into industrialization… On the other hand, one thing that led to such a stong America is the relatively easy movement of capital, raw materials, and labor… it is a global situation now, and nothing can change that. So, the question is… what is the US going to DO about it…??? Whine, or compete..??
Response:
Actually, as i rcall it, I beleive that 3 or 4 yrs ago, Toyota produced its citing the strong position of the yen in relation to the dollar..the cost of living in Japan’s urban centers is insane. The overall wage standard is apparently fairly high in Japan as well. One of my buddies used to be Canadian trade envoy to Hongkong then sinagapore. then some other place, then some other in far east asia. The Landlords used to get excited when they would see him coming (big whiteguy, lotsa money) His wife (who is a Japanese national) would walk in behind him and the landlord would just lose it , with the perception being "OOOH she’s Japanese, she must have big bucks" with any perceptions of my buddy’s affluence falling immediately to a dismal second place. My point here is that the stae of cheap labor has changed so much with "made in Japan" carrying much of the percieved build quality and affluance that we normally USED to enjoy with "made in America" on the label. My how times change – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Some companies like Toyota and Honda have the business savy to produce > products here in the States at likely a higher cost (?) ,,, but that > made in America > status has certainly helped them sell it, unfortunately at the demise > of GM.
Response:
> I don’t want this post to get in to a political realm if possible. > I see that many popular amps are now being made in China. > Even Fender’s. > I’m not against buying foreign made gear. > I have an Olp, made in China, bass that I like a lot. > Been gigging with it off and on for over 2 years now.
LOL!! Lard Valve and his brain dead fan base have been using Chinese and Russian products ‘exclusively’ for many years….
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