apples and oranges
Question:
I just came back from a sales training meeting and we talked at length (as we always do !) about the same kinds of things currently being discussed in this group. Now, I would like to compile a list of the issues that have come up over the past years, and I invite anyone to contribute constructively to this list. I want to make a point at the end of the whole thing. ***** For this excercise, you are trying to decide between: a) 750 dollar Fender Jazz bass from local Guitar Center b) 1800 Zon Sonus IV instrument from Bass Northwest in WA. This will be your second bass guitar, and you have been playing for 8 years, and consider yourself an accomplished player who prides himself with holding down a great groove, but has chops if called upon. You are interested in a 4 string bass only. You have no preference of active vs passive, although if reasonable price, passive would be an added plus. You currently have a Fender Jazz bass you bought a while ago, but it has taken a beating and are looking to upgrade a little. You are not emotionally attached to any brand at this time. You preferred playing style is modern music, including hard rock, alternative rock, funk, and a little jazz. What you know: Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out) Fender cons, what you like least: (based on issues dicussed on this ng) Single coil hum Inconsistency between basses Hard to get low action Lack of customer support from factory Truss rod adjustments Small bridge Dead spots (any more?) Zon pros, what you like best: (Zon advocates fill this section out) Reasonable price Well made Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to have a more than one Bartolini Pickups Nice tone low action Customer service from Zon is excellent Large bridge Playability is excellent (any more?) Zon cons, what you like least: (based on issues discussed on this ng, feel free to add more if you would like) ***** This is going to be interesting… — pd http://www.magicpill.net http://www.peterduncan.net
Response:
Fender, what I like least: All that you said…. And.. It’s very expensive in regard of what it is…especially where I leave (in France) Fender, what i like most: It’s a Fender, man!
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>Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out)
It’s not a Kingston. edvaard
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Is price not an issue? The Zon is more than twice the price of the Fender…. For the money many of the Fenders are great.
Response:
>I just came back from a sales training meeting and we talked at length (as we always do !) about the same kinds of things currently >being discussed in this group.
Was this a ZON sales training meeting? >Now, I would like to compile a list of the issues that have come up over the past years, and I invite anyone to contribute >constructively to this list. I want to make a point at the end of the whole thing.
Okay,shoot…… >***** >For this excercise, you are trying to decide between: >a) 750 dollar Fender Jazz bass from local Guitar Center >b) 1800 Zon Sonus IV instrument from Bass Northwest in WA.
Easy choice.The Fender Jazz. >This will be your second bass guitar, and you have been playing for 8 years, and consider yourself an accomplished player who prides >himself with holding down a great groove, but has chops if called upon.
A Fender seems like the logical choice here.Less expensive,and will fit ANY music style. You are interested in a 4 string bass only. You have no >preference of active vs passive, although if reasonable price, passive would be an added plus.
Active pickups are not really needed.Passive pickups sound more natural.Active pickups tend to sound sterile. You currently have a Fender Jazz bass >you bought a while ago, but it has taken a beating and are looking to upgrade a little.
Why would you want to "upgrade"?No need.A Fender bass is fine stock. You are not emotionally attached to any >brand at this time. You preferred playing style is modern music, including hard rock, alternative rock, funk, and a little jazz.
A Fender bass is really all that is needed for any music style. >What you know: >Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out)
Fender basses are good for just about any musical style.Fender basses are natural sounding.Fenders play perfectly fine,you just have to know how to set them up correctly.I’ve played plently of Fender basses in stores that don’t play so good untill they are set-up correctly.A Fender bass is really the only bass that you will ever need….plain and simple.I’ve owned dozens of basses from Ken Smith’s to Music Man’s.Fenders just have that nice,smooth tone that works for any style,not for just one specialized style of music. Why is it then Peter that companies like Sadowsky make Fender Jazz bass clones?I see no benefit it spending tons of cash on a bass that sounds no better than my Fenders. >Fender cons, what you like least: (based on issues dicussed on this ng) >Single coil hum
You just have to know how to control the hum if it appears.There is not always that single coil hum.Some places I’ve played,I get hum.But most places I do not get hum. >Inconsistency between basses
I’ll agree here.You do have to find the right Fender for you.The same is true for any brand of bass that you buy.Inconsistency is true for just about any brand of instrument that you buy. >Hard to get low action
It all depends on which Fender bass that you buy.Some of my Jazz basses have very low action.Some have high action.These days I have raised the action on all of my basses…I prefer high action on my basses now.Plus the tone is better with high action. Lack of customer support from factory I’ve really never had to call Fender for anything.If you buy a Fender bass,just about any guitar repairman can fix it.If you have a problem with your Fender,your local Fender dealer can usually fix it very easily.Plus Fender parts are readily available everywhere. >Truss rod adjustments
Most basses need some truss rod adjustment from time to time. >Small bridge
There is nothing wrong with a small bridge!I’m so sick and tired of all these morons on this ng thinking that you need some beefy bridge like a "Badass".You do not "need" a beefy bridge.More of a sales gimmick than anything IMHO.In fact,I prefer the standard Fender small bridge to all of these beefy bridges that only really seem to add weight to the bass.Beefy bridges are totally over-hyped nonsense IMHO. >Dead spots
Again,it all depends on what bass you try.I’ve played my share of Alembics,Ken Smiths,Music Man’s,etc. in the past that have had dead spots and are in need of a fret job.Again,you can get rid of many dead spots by slightly raising the action. (any more?)
Basically you just need to know how to set-up a Fender bass.It’s just unfortunate that so many Fender basses hanging up in stores are not set-up correctly.I think that many anti-Fender people on this ng have never played a properly set-up Fender bass. >Zon pros, what you like best: (Zon advocates fill this section out)
Really not much that I like about a ZON. >Reasonable price
Yeah right!Totally over-priced! >Well made
Fancy,that’s for sure!No need for all that exotic wood to be used.Alder is really all that is needed.I don’t buy into all that snake-oil that you NEED something other than Alder to get a good sound!That’s a bunch of BS! >Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to have a more than one
A ZON is too mechanical IMHO.ZON’s have no soul my man!!!! >Bartolini Pickups
No real need for active pickups.Active pick-ups do not sound natural IMHO.Active pick-ups tend to sound sterile.Plus changing batteries for active pick-ups is a pain in the ass. >Nice tone
The tone of a ZON is at best OKAY.Really only good for specialized types of music. >low action
I’ll give ZONS that.All of the ZONS that I’ve played have all had low action. >Customer service from Zon is excellent
At the price that ZON charges for basses,the customer service better be excellent!Not to mention if something major goes wrong with your ZON,you have to send it back to the factory for service. >Large bridge
Over-built and over-hyped.A large bridge is really not needed. A large bridge really only adds physical weight to a bass.I’ve had plenty of basses with large bridges.I prefer the small Fender bridge.With a smaller bridge,it is easier to control the sustain. You don’t really need anything more IMO. >Playability is excellent
Playability is very mechanical. >(any more?)
Bass Player magazine sure hypes ZONS!That must be the reason to buy one then?NOT! >Zon cons, what you like least: (based on issues discussed on this ng, feel free to add more if you would like)
Zon negatives(for me anyway): Graphite neck is a big problem in my book.Graphite does not feel natural to me.It feels fake. The look of a ZON really bothers me.They look too futuristic for my tastes.The headsock is big and dumb.The name ZON sounds like a space alien……" The sound of a ZON just doesn’t sound natural to me.Yes Peter you had a nice mp3 of you playing your ZON posted a while back re-creating a Fender P-Bass like tone.While I thought the tone was similar,I could still tell that it had a phony,sense of sterile tone to it.I know the Fender P-bass tone real well and while the tone you got was good,it was obvious to me that you were not using a real P-bass.I did enjoy listening to your playing though. The price.ZONS are too expensive. ZONS are not accepted for all music styles.A ZON’s look would be out of place in many situations.Especially with many of the blues and jazz nazi band leaders who are looking for a more "traditional" type of sound. I can see a ZON being a good Heavy Metal bass.ZONS do have a nice Heavy Metal look and name. I can see it now…..me showing up to do a Heavy Metal gig with a ZON and the guys in the band saying WOW man cool check out that cool bass! A ZON is also THE bass for an 80’s New-Wave style band. In fact a ZON is the perfect bass for that type of gig.Synth doubled bass lines will sound perfect with a ZON bass! Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->***** >This is going to be interesting… >– >pd >http://www.magicpill.net >http://www.peterduncan.net
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You two need to organize a cage match and put it on PPV. edvaard
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You aren’t really contributing to the excercise. You have to assume the facts are given. Don’t argue with them. Just list the pros and cons for the sake of the excercise. I took your pros as "tone and name." I discraded versatility b/c it isn’t. Both the P and J bass basically have one tone. Most other basses can get the same tone (pickup construction isn’t rocket science). BTW: Every hear of the Zon Sonus as being the "Jazz bass of the 90’s" ? Even IT is a fender clone, but it is an emulation of it. — pd http://www.magicpill.net http://www.peterduncan.net
: : >I just came back from a sales training meeting and we talked at length (as we always do !) about the same kinds of things currently : >being discussed in this group. : : Was this a ZON sales training meeting? : > : >Now, I would like to compile a list of the issues that have come up over the past years, and I invite anyone to contribute : >constructively to this list. I want to make a point at the end of the whole thing. : > : : Okay,shoot…… : >***** : > : >For this excercise, you are trying to decide between: : > : >a) 750 dollar Fender Jazz bass from local Guitar Center : >b) 1800 Zon Sonus IV instrument from Bass Northwest in WA. : : Easy choice.The Fender Jazz. : > : >This will be your second bass guitar, and you have been playing for 8 years, and consider yourself an accomplished player who prides : >himself with holding down a great groove, but has chops if called upon. : : A Fender seems like the logical choice here.Less expensive,and will : fit ANY music style. : : You are interested in a 4 string bass only. You have no : >preference of active vs passive, although if reasonable price, passive would be an added plus. : : Active pickups are not really needed.Passive pickups sound more : natural.Active pickups tend to sound sterile. : : You currently have a Fender Jazz bass : >you bought a while ago, but it has taken a beating and are looking to upgrade a little. : : Why would you want to "upgrade"?No need.A Fender bass is fine stock. : : You are not emotionally attached to any : >brand at this time. You preferred playing style is modern music, including hard rock, alternative rock, funk, and a little jazz. : > : A Fender bass is really all that is needed for any music style. : : >What you know: : > : >Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out) : > : Fender basses are good for just about any musical style.Fender basses : are natural sounding.Fenders play perfectly fine,you just have to know : how to set them up correctly.I’ve played plently of Fender basses in : stores that don’t play so good untill they are set-up correctly.A : Fender bass is really the only bass that you will ever need….plain : and simple.I’ve owned dozens of basses from Ken Smith’s to Music : Man’s.Fenders just have that nice,smooth tone that works for any : style,not for just one specialized style of music. : : Why is it then Peter that companies like Sadowsky make Fender Jazz : bass clones?I see no benefit it spending tons of cash on a bass that : sounds no better than my Fenders. : : >Fender cons, what you like least: (based on issues dicussed on this ng) : > : >Single coil hum : : You just have to know how to control the hum if it appears.There is : not always that single coil hum.Some places I’ve played,I get hum.But : most places I do not get hum. : : >Inconsistency between basses : : I’ll agree here.You do have to find the right Fender for you.The same : is true for any brand of bass that you buy.Inconsistency is true for : just about any brand of instrument that you buy. : : >Hard to get low action : : It all depends on which Fender bass that you buy.Some of my Jazz : basses have very low action.Some have high action.These days I have : raised the action on all of my basses…I prefer high action on my : basses now.Plus the tone is better with high action. : > : Lack of customer support from factory : : I’ve really never had to call Fender for anything.If you buy a Fender : bass,just about any guitar repairman can fix it.If you have a problem : with your Fender,your local Fender dealer can usually fix it very : easily.Plus Fender parts are readily available everywhere. : : >Truss rod adjustments : : Most basses need some truss rod adjustment from time to time. : : >Small bridge : : There is nothing wrong with a small bridge!I’m so sick and tired of : all these morons on this ng thinking that you need some beefy bridge : like a "Badass".You do not "need" a beefy bridge.More of a sales : gimmick than anything IMHO.In fact,I prefer the standard Fender small : bridge to all of these beefy bridges that only really seem to add : weight to the bass.Beefy bridges are totally over-hyped nonsense IMHO. : : >Dead spots : : Again,it all depends on what bass you try.I’ve played my share of : Alembics,Ken Smiths,Music Man’s,etc. in the past that have had dead : spots and are in need of a fret job.Again,you can get rid of many dead : spots by slightly raising the action. : > : (any more?) : > : Basically you just need to know how to set-up a Fender bass.It’s just : unfortunate that so many Fender basses hanging up in stores are not : set-up correctly.I think that many anti-Fender people on this ng have : never played a properly set-up Fender bass. : : >Zon pros, what you like best: (Zon advocates fill this section out) : > : Really not much that I like about a ZON. : : >Reasonable price : : Yeah right!Totally over-priced! : : >Well made : : Fancy,that’s for sure!No need for all that exotic wood to be : used.Alder is really all that is needed.I don’t buy into all that : snake-oil that you NEED something other than Alder to get a good : sound!That’s a bunch of BS! : : >Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to have a more than one : : A ZON is too mechanical IMHO.ZON’s have no soul my man!!!! : : >Bartolini Pickups : : No real need for active pickups.Active pick-ups do not sound natural : IMHO.Active pick-ups tend to sound sterile.Plus changing batteries for : active pick-ups is a pain in the ass. : : >Nice tone : : The tone of a ZON is at best OKAY.Really only good for specialized : types of music. : : >low action : : I’ll give ZONS that.All of the ZONS that I’ve played have all had low : action. : : >Customer service from Zon is excellent : : At the price that ZON charges for basses,the customer service better : be excellent!Not to mention if something major goes wrong with your : ZON,you have to send it back to the factory for service. : : >Large bridge : : Over-built and over-hyped.A large bridge is really not needed. : A large bridge really only adds physical weight to a bass.I’ve had : plenty of basses with large bridges.I prefer the small Fender : bridge.With a smaller bridge,it is easier to control the sustain. : You don’t really need anything more IMO. : : >Playability is excellent : : Playability is very mechanical. : > : >(any more?) : : Bass Player magazine sure hypes ZONS!That must be the reason to buy : one then?NOT! : > : >Zon cons, what you like least: (based on issues discussed on this ng, feel free to add more if you would like) : > : Zon negatives(for me anyway): : > : Graphite neck is a big problem in my book.Graphite does not feel : natural to me.It feels fake. : : The look of a ZON really bothers me.They look too futuristic for my : tastes.The headsock is big and dumb.The name ZON sounds like a space : alien……" : : The sound of a ZON just doesn’t sound natural to me.Yes Peter you had : a nice mp3 of you playing your ZON posted a while back re-creating a : Fender P-Bass like tone.While I thought the tone was similar,I could : still tell that it had a phony,sense of sterile tone to it.I know the : Fender P-bass tone real well and while the tone you got was good,it : was obvious to me that you were not using a real P-bass.I did enjoy : listening to your playing though. : : The price.ZONS are too expensive. : : ZONS are not accepted for all music styles.A ZON’s look would be out : of place in many situations.Especially with many of the blues and jazz : nazi band leaders who are looking for a more "traditional" type of : sound. : : I can see a ZON being : a good Heavy Metal bass.ZONS do have a nice Heavy Metal look and name. : I can see it now…..me showing up to do a Heavy Metal gig with a ZON : and the guys in the band saying WOW man cool check out that cool bass! : : A ZON is also THE bass for an 80’s New-Wave style band. : In fact a ZON is the perfect bass for that type of gig.Synth doubled : bass lines will sound perfect with a ZON bass! : : Scott : : >***** : > : > : > : >This is going to be interesting… : > : > : > : >– : > : >pd : > : >http://www.magicpill.net : >http://www.peterduncan.net : > : > : > : > :
Response:
Ditto here, my 75 Fender Jazz, low action, many tones, well put together, ugly, plays like butter. Paid $299.00 for it 15 years ago. Tommybro – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, IMHO, the best bass in the world is mine. =)
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> Ditto here, my 75 Fender Jazz, low action, many tones, well put > together, ugly, plays like butter. Paid $299.00 for it 15 years ago.
Hey I’ll give you $300 for it. I mean, that’s more than you paid for it! Adam
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My experience differs. I find that acoustically, the Zon sounds like you know it is gonna sound great when you plug it in. Even my drummer noted when he picked up one of mine how much the bass seemed to be "alive" when you play it dry. — pd http://www.magicpill.net http://www.peterduncan.net : A personal, poorly documented, Zon Con: : The one time I tried a Zon, I found it overly thin. Not enjoying the acoustic : tone, I didn’t plug it in. : : I’m sorry I can’t remember the details of the model. : — : Holding a titular Archbishopric since 1999.
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I’ll give it a shot, beats studying. — r. "Of Being Bass"
> I just came back from a sales training meeting and we talked at length (as
we always do !) about the same kinds of things currently > being discussed in this group. > Now, I would like to compile a list of the issues that have come up over
the past years, and I invite anyone to contribute > constructively to this list. I want to make a point at the end of the whole thing. > ***** > For this excercise, you are trying to decide between: > a) 750 dollar Fender Jazz bass from local Guitar Center > b) 1800 Zon Sonus IV instrument from Bass Northwest in WA. > This will be your second bass guitar, and you have been playing for 8
years, and consider yourself an accomplished player who prides > himself with holding down a great groove, but has chops if called upon.
You are interested in a 4 string bass only. You have no > preference of active vs passive, although if reasonable price, passive
would be an added plus. You currently have a Fender Jazz bass > you bought a while ago, but it has taken a beating and are looking to
upgrade a little. You are not emotionally attached to any > brand at this time. You preferred playing style is modern music, including
hard rock, alternative rock, funk, and a little jazz. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What you know: > Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out) > -All engineers feel comfortable with it > -It’s widely recognized, better quicker resale. > -Parts are easy > -It’s a safe bet > -it a classic look, feel and sound > -owning one is a great way to learn to be a bass tech > Fender cons, what you like least: (based on issues dicussed on this ng) > Single coil hum > Inconsistency between basses > Hard to get low action > Lack of customer support from factory > Truss rod adjustments > Small bridge > Dead spots > lack of tonal range > looks just like the one next too it > Neck heavy > String trees > missing a few frets > ground to bridge could kill you > have to boil linn seeds for the rosewood necked ones > unbalanced tone between strings > you have to remove all those screws, and strings to access the electronics > you have to remove the neck, or gouge the body to adjust that truss rod > neck shims >(any more?) > Zon pros, what you like best: (Zon advocates fill this section out) > Reasonable price > Well made > Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to have a more than one > Bartolini Pickups > Nice tone > low action > Customer service from Zon is excellent > Large bridge > Playability is excellent > LOW maintenance > great neck balance > Light weight > Peace of mind that the neck won’t warp, causing more expense > (any more?) > Zon cons, what you like least: (based on issues discussed on this ng, feel
free to add more if you would like) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mailing my bass to CA to get fixed? > dealing with a different skeptic every day > inability to swap necks from different makers, with different shapes > Pick-up routes are not as common to fill with different brands > Having to replace that damned battery > looks too classy for some > I’m not good enough to deserve a bass that nice, or $$ > ***** > This is going to be interesting… > -I sure the hell hope so son. > — > pd > http://www.magicpill.net > http://www.peterduncan.net
Response:
Updated List : Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out) Name Tone : : : : Fender cons, what you like least: (based on issues dicussed on this ng) : : Single coil hum : Inconsistency between basses : Hard to get low action : Lack of customer support from factory : Truss rod adjustments : Small bridge : Dead spots : : (any more?) : : : Zon pros, what you like best: (Zon advocates fill this section out) : Sonus tone is well suited for just about any style of music : Reasonable price : Well made : Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to have a more than one : Bartolini Pickups : Nice tone : low action : Customer service from Zon is excellent : Large bridge : Playability is excellent : : (any more?) : : Zon cons, what you like least: (based on issues discussed on this ng, feel free to add more if you would like) : : : : — pd http://www.magicpill.net http://www.peterduncan.net
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To me….the Heart & Soul of a musician will come through almost anything they are given to play! Aloha, Jerry
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You are right that the Zons are of high quality, and very nice instruments. I like the Fender sound/tone much better. For me, tone comes first, convenience 2nd. Nothing about the Fenders I’ve tried outweigh the great tone. The paradox of Fenders is that a big part of their sound comes from the flimsy bridge. That’s why the oh-so-nice Sadowskys sound great, but they don’t quite nail the Fender vibe. It’s too bad that their quality control gets between the players and their basses (or so I hear). jordan
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Naaaah! edvaard
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If you buy a Sadowsky (something more comaparable to Zon) No single coil hum (hum cancelin single coil) very consistent between each bass Action as low as you want it (ask anybody who have a Sadowsky) Roger will give you the greatest service possible. He even read the thread when we talk about him and will repost if he need to. (I never seen Joe here, but I heard he give good service to) yes you do have a trust rod, I feel it’s a plus. And the neck is very, very stable. Very good quality hardware no dead spot, on mine at leas. My first bass with no dead spot. (expept my steinberger) You said it yourself Peter. Apples and oranges. Compare 2 high end bass together, not a high end and a middle class bass. If you want a jazz bass and you want a real good instrument, give a call to Roger or Mike lull. Even then i don’t think you can compare a Zon and a Sadowsky, they are just different bass. I really don’t want to start a flame war here, it’s just my opinion. Sadowsky is my cup of tea, Zon is yours and it’s fine with me. And i am happy for anybodu who has found HIS bass, any brand it is. If it is a Squier i am very happy for them, because they found there bass and it’s not as expensive as a Zon or a Sadowsky. Yvon
> I just came back from a sales training meeting and we talked at length (as
we always do !) about the same kinds of things currently > being discussed in this group. > Now, I would like to compile a list of the issues that have come up over
the past years, and I invite anyone to contribute > constructively to this list. I want to make a point at the end of the whole thing. > ***** > For this excercise, you are trying to decide between: > a) 750 dollar Fender Jazz bass from local Guitar Center > b) 1800 Zon Sonus IV instrument from Bass Northwest in WA. > This will be your second bass guitar, and you have been playing for 8
years, and consider yourself an accomplished player who prides > himself with holding down a great groove, but has chops if called upon.
You are interested in a 4 string bass only. You have no > preference of active vs passive, although if reasonable price, passive
would be an added plus. You currently have a Fender Jazz bass > you bought a while ago, but it has taken a beating and are looking to
upgrade a little. You are not emotionally attached to any > brand at this time. You preferred playing style is modern music, including
hard rock, alternative rock, funk, and a little jazz. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What you know: > Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out) > Fender cons, what you like least: (based on issues dicussed on this ng) > Single coil hum > Inconsistency between basses > Hard to get low action > Lack of customer support from factory > Truss rod adjustments > Small bridge > Dead spots > (any more?) > Zon pros, what you like best: (Zon advocates fill this section out) > Reasonable price > Well made > Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to have a more than one > Bartolini Pickups > Nice tone > low action > Customer service from Zon is excellent > Large bridge > Playability is excellent > (any more?) > Zon cons, what you like least: (based on issues discussed on this ng, feel
free to add more if you would like) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ***** > This is going to be interesting… > — > pd > http://www.magicpill.net > http://www.peterduncan.net
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How the hell can you compare two basses that differ so dramatically in price. The Zon is more than double the price of the Fender. Then for pro for Zon you put price?!? This exercise doesn’t even make sense. – TM P.S. – Didn’t you say in an earlier post your were saving the Zon rhetoric to emails. Enought of this stuff in the newsgroup already…
> I just came back from a sales training meeting and we talked at length (as
we always do !) about the same kinds of things currently > being discussed in this group. > Now, I would like to compile a list of the issues that have come up over
the past years, and I invite anyone to contribute > constructively to this list. I want to make a point at the end of the whole thing. > ***** > For this excercise, you are trying to decide between: > a) 750 dollar Fender Jazz bass from local Guitar Center > b) 1800 Zon Sonus IV instrument from Bass Northwest in WA. > This will be your second bass guitar, and you have been playing for 8
years, and consider yourself an accomplished player who prides > himself with holding down a great groove, but has chops if called upon.
You are interested in a 4 string bass only. You have no > preference of active vs passive, although if reasonable price, passive
would be an added plus. You currently have a Fender Jazz bass > you bought a while ago, but it has taken a beating and are looking to
upgrade a little. You are not emotionally attached to any > brand at this time. You preferred playing style is modern music, including
hard rock, alternative rock, funk, and a little jazz. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What you know: > Fender pros, what you like best: (Fender advocates fill this section out) > Fender cons, what you like least: (based on issues dicussed on this ng) > Single coil hum > Inconsistency between basses > Hard to get low action > Lack of customer support from factory > Truss rod adjustments > Small bridge > Dead spots > (any more?) > Zon pros, what you like best: (Zon advocates fill this section out) > Reasonable price > Well made > Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to have a more than one > Bartolini Pickups > Nice tone > low action > Customer service from Zon is excellent > Large bridge > Playability is excellent > (any more?) > Zon cons, what you like least: (based on issues discussed on this ng, feel
free to add more if you would like) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ***** > This is going to be interesting… > — > pd > http://www.magicpill.net > http://www.peterduncan.net
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Well, IMHO, the best bass in the world is mine. =)
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Come on Jerry…. quit being reasonable!!! Keith
> To me….the Heart & Soul of a musician will > come through almost anything they are given to play! Aloha,
Jerry
Response:
> A Fender seems like the logical choice here.Less expensive,and will > fit ANY music style.
So if less expensive is what you’re after, why spend so much on a Fender? Why not get a cheap no-name brand? > Active pickups are not really needed.Passive pickups sound more > natural.Active pickups tend to sound sterile.
Totally your opinion. That’s fine, that’s why we are individuals. The problem is when you try passing off your opinion as fact for everyone. You don’t speak for me. IMO most passive pickups sound muddy and ancient. Does this mean that is the fact? No. > A Fender bass is really all that is needed for any music style.
Any? You’re going to look like a complete idiot sitting in the back row of a symphony orchestra with one. > Fender basses are good for just about any musical style.Fender basses > are natural sounding.Fenders play perfectly fine,you just have to know > how to set them up correctly.I’ve played plently of Fender basses in > stores that don’t play so good untill they are set-up correctly.A > Fender bass is really the only bass that you will ever need….plain > and simple.I’ve owned dozens of basses from Ken Smith’s to Music > Man’s.Fenders just have that nice,smooth tone that works for any > style,not for just one specialized style of music.
Setup has nothing to do with poor workmanship. You can spend all day setting up a bass, but if the frets stick out past the fretboard, they’ll still cut into your hand. > Why is it then Peter that companies like Sadowsky make Fender Jazz > bass clones?I see no benefit it spending tons of cash on a bass that > sounds no better than my Fenders.
I don’t think the fender tone/sound was ever mentioned. We’re talking workmanship and playability. > I’ll agree here.You do have to find the right Fender for you.The same > is true for any brand of bass that you buy.Inconsistency is true for > just about any brand of instrument that you buy.
Not if each instrument is hand made by the same people with attention to detail and not mass-produced in an assembly line. >Hard to get low action > It all depends on which Fender bass that you buy.Some of my Jazz > basses have very low action.Some have high action.These days I have > raised the action on all of my basses…I prefer high action on my > basses now.Plus the tone is better with high action.
So you’re saying the solution for getting low action is to raise the action? >Truss rod adjustments > Most basses need some truss rod adjustment from time to time.
They don’t need them if they don’t have them. >Dead spots > Again,it all depends on what bass you try.I’ve played my share of > Alembics,Ken Smiths,Music Man’s,etc. in the past that have had dead > spots and are in need of a fret job.Again,you can get rid of many dead > spots by slightly raising the action.
Which proves the point that it’s hard to get low action on a Fender. Sure, other basses have dead spots and need a fret job, but how many of these are like this RIGHT out of the factory? > Basically you just need to know how to set-up a Fender bass.It’s just > unfortunate that so many Fender basses hanging up in stores are not > set-up correctly.I think that many anti-Fender people on this ng have > never played a properly set-up Fender bass.
Bzzzt. I was able to try out about 10 at my local store. I spent 4 different days over the course of 2 weeks or so and spent at least 30 minutes with each Fender. I know how to set up a bass, and had them set up pretty well, but at the time that I was buying, I was able to get much better results out of Ibanez basses. >Reasonable price > Yeah right!Totally over-priced!
You get what you pay for. We’ll leave it at that. >Consistent from bass to bass, i.e., they feel the same if you were to
have a more than one > A ZON is too mechanical IMHO.ZON’s have no soul my man!!!!
By soul do you mean buzzing and dead spots? Are you also the kind of guy that likes analog recording devices better than digital because of the "warmth"??? Pssst, here’s a hint, warmth = noise. > No real need for active pickups.Active pick-ups do not sound natural > IMHO.Active pick-ups tend to sound sterile.Plus changing batteries for > active pick-ups is a pain in the ass.
Changing batteries what, once a year, twice a year is a pain in the ass? Do you fill your gas tank up in your car? Isn’t that a pain in the ass? What you’re saying here is totally subjective. It’s like me saying that cars don’t need fuel injectors because it isn’t natural. ??? It’s an electric instrument for crying out loud. What sort of natural sound do you expect to get going into an electronic amplifier??? > At the price that ZON charges for basses,the customer service better > be excellent!Not to mention if something major goes wrong with your > ZON,you have to send it back to the factory for service.
As opposed to what, having some $6 an hour hack kid try and fix your bass at a local store? >Playability is excellent > Playability is very mechanical.
What does this mean? Mechanical? As opposed to using ESP? > Bass Player magazine sure hypes ZONS!That must be the reason to buy > one then?NOT!
When did anyone mention bp magazine? > Graphite neck is a big problem in my book.Graphite does not feel > natural to me.It feels fake.
Is it because it’s painted on the back? I don’t understand how the material of a neck can change the feel of a bass, unless you’re doing weird neck bends or anything. If it’s because of the paint, there are a lot of wood-necked basses with painted necks. It’s not just a graphite thing. > The look of a ZON really bothers me.They look too futuristic for my > tastes.The headsock is big and dumb.The name ZON sounds like a space > alien……"
So is it the look that bothers you or the sound of the name? Fender sounds like a car part to me…big deal? It doesn’t change the way the bass sounds or plays. I’m looking at a picture of a sonus right now on Zon’s web site, and it looks as natural as any other bass (Ibanez, Yamaha, etc). If you want to get down to personal tastes, the Fender P body has a nice look to it IMO, but the jazz body looks like a hunk of warped wood… > ZONS are not accepted for all music styles.A ZON’s look would be out > of place in many situations.Especially with many of the blues and jazz > nazi band leaders who are looking for a more "traditional" type of > sound.
Here you go again with the look and the sound. Which one is it? IMO, if a band leader is going to be picky on whether or not the bass player plays a Fender, they are either stuck in the past or would be so controlling it wouldn’t make sense to WANT to play in their band. > I can see a ZON being > a good Heavy Metal bass.ZONS do have a nice Heavy Metal look and name. > I can see it now…..me showing up to do a Heavy Metal gig with a ZON > and the guys in the band saying WOW man cool check out that cool bass!
Here’s a link to some artists that use Zons. There are some metal bassists there, but there is a WIDE variety of music covered here. Dare I say as wide a variety as Fender? http://www.zonguitars.com/zon.artistnews.html I think if you want to try and make yourself creditable in this ng you need to do a few things. 1) Stop stating your opinion as fact. 2) Make up your mind. If you contradict yourself, how is anyone supposed to take you seriously? 3) Take the personal problems to email or away altogether. You obviously have a beef with PD. We don’t need to read about it. It makes you look like the kid trying to fit in with the group by making fun of someone for no reason. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Adam
Response:
> Fender basses are good for just about any musical style.Fender basses > are natural sounding.
First of all, let me say that i don
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