Vox Valvetronix opinions?
Question:
It’s been alluded to that asking about any non-tube amps in this newsgroup is close to heresy. I’ll take the chance, and take advantage of my Marshall Mk II’s "protective shield." Anyway, here goes. I had a chance to listen to, and occasionally play through a Vox AD120 with the accompanying VC-12 foot controller, for close to a week here very recently. Loved the sound, and of course, all the bells and whistles that accompanied it. The question I’d like to ask the learned members of this group is if any of you have a constructive opinion about the Vox Valvetronix amps, from either a maintenance, reliability, or other useful information standpoint. Thanks much, Marty.
Response:
Hello Marty, I guess the first question I’d ask is your intended use for this Vox amp. Are you a stay-at-home player, or are you playing out live on stage in clubs and halls? Live, my personal formula is a good tube amp (`74 Super Lead half stack, or for smaller clubs – a Matchless Lightning 15 combo), a good overdrive pedal (Barber Electronics "Burn Unit" or "Tone Pump") and a good guitar (Les Paul Classic, Telecaster or Stratocaster). I’m a weekend gigging guy in clubs and halls. For at-home use, I’m either unplugged or using a small amp. While I haven’t had the experience with this Vox amp you allude to, it’s my sense from playing a lot of the newer stuff and the muddling amps, that they are toys designed to appeal to stay-at-home guys who believe that they need a bunch of different sounds to play well. The build quality is a lot less than your old Marshall. While a good, older tube amp will probably continue to appreciate in value as time goes by, many of the newer amps that are designed along the lines of a computer will drop in value as the "newer and improved" version hits the shelves. It’s my opinion, for example, that many of the newer muddling amps will be ten to twenty cents on the dollar for re-sale value on down the road, and the question of their durability is still out. While the other guitar player in our band uses and sounds very good with his TSL 100 watt combo (among other amps he can choose to use), there have been threads on the AGA talking about the poor soldering techniques on these amps, and problems with the amps after several years of use. However, the older Marshalls are far easier to work on and to fix, and the older models are the amps that built much of rock and blues as we know it. The times I’ve heard the muddling amps live on stage at our local open stages and jams, the muddling amps were laughable and didn’t even come close to a fair comparison with a good tube amp. They didn’t cut through the mix, they sounded flat and one-dimensional, and much of the distortion sounded like angry bees in a can. If you like the Vox amp and satisfy yourself that it’s the right amp for you, here are some questions you might ask yourself. What do you think it’s going to be worth 1 – 3 years from now? If you kept it 5 – 10 years and then had parts break in the amp, could you get replacement parts easily and repair it easily? Marty, I don’t have a lot of answers for you. With a lot of the computer market designed for planned obsolesence and the older models thrown away, its sad to see this same designing and "thinking" in the guitar amp arena. I’m not saying that your Vox amp in question is a poor choice – you need to make your own decision. I’m just real hesitant to promote a lot of the newer amps that I’ve seen, played and heard. They just don’t do it for me. I hope you get some good responses and can make a good decision as to what is the best course for yourself. In the end, if you like the amp and you can afford it, and you’ve satisfied yourself with information, buy it and enjoy it. If you don’t like it after owning it, sell it cheap and figure that you paid money for education and experience. If you like the amp and it continues to give you joy, then by all means make good music for the world! Finally, the same other guitar player in our band purchased an AC-30 reissue with the Celestion Blue speakers, and right out of the box it was a great-sounding combo (those speakers are superb). It’s one of the best-sounding new amps from one of the "big" amp makers that I’ve heard. Good luck to you and enjoy your music, Marty. All the best. Walk in Beauty, Peace. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s been alluded to that asking about any non-tube amps in this newsgroup > is close to heresy. I’ll take the chance, and take advantage of my Marshall > Mk II’s "protective shield." Anyway, here goes. > I had a chance to listen to, and occasionally play through a Vox AD120 with > the accompanying VC-12 foot controller, for close to a week here very > recently. Loved the sound, and of course, all the bells and whistles that > accompanied it. > The question I’d like to ask the learned members of this group is if any of > you have a constructive opinion about the Vox Valvetronix amps, from either > a maintenance, reliability, or other useful information standpoint. > Thanks much, Marty.
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Response:
> …muddling amps,…
Good one! :^) > that they are toys designed to appeal to stay-at-home guys who believe > that they need a bunch of different sounds to play well…
or just for fun. > While a good, older tube amp will probably continue to appreciate in > value as time goes by…
I don’t like to think like a "collector". It’s enough that they maintain their value, rather than depreciate. Getting good use out of them only requires the maintenance costs, which don’t have to be that high. The neat thing about good used gear, is that it maintains its value. You can almost use/try it "for free". You can sell for almost same price. > …many of the newer amps that are designed along > the lines of a computer will drop in value as the "newer and improved" > version hits the shelves. It’s my opinion, for example, that many of > the newer muddling amps will be ten to twenty cents on the dollar for > re-sale value on down the road, and the question of their durability is > still out.
Computers are my main thing. My view is that one should plan on getting the most use out of any computer based gear, and consider it to depreciate to zero (i.e. worthless) very quickly. If you can unload some old gear, that’s great, but try to get the maximum usage value out of it. A corollary for buying computer based gear: don’t buy it unless you need it immediately! i.e. don’t buy on speculation that you might need it in 6 months. In 6 months, there will be better/cheaper ones available. > The times I’ve heard the muddling amps live on stage at our local open > stages and jams, the muddling amps were laughable and didn’t even come > close to a fair comparison with a good tube amp. They didn’t cut > through the mix, they sounded flat and one-dimensional, and much of the > distortion sounded like angry bees in a can.
Most players that I’ve seen here use tube amps. I did see a fellow try to use an amp modeler at a CD launch party/concert. As you say, it didn’t cut through the mix, but that’s partly the fault of the band (esp. acoustic rhythm player) who should have "stepped back" to give him room to solo. Sometimes you want to kill those loud/noisy strummers. When you go back to listen to John Lennon, his rhythm guitar was not high up in the mix! George never had to fight to get himself heard. It’s called teamwork. > computer market designed for planned obsolesence and the older models > thrown away, its sad to see this same designing and "thinking" in the > guitar amp arena…
I’m not sure it’s really "planned obsolescence" in the same way as we’ve accused the automobile markets. Rather, any gear that uses computers is maximally modifiable, and therefore evolves very quickly. It "just happens" that succeeding generations are much better than previous ones. If they had known how, they would have build the perfect one right away, and cornered the market. It’s not possible or practical. > you like the amp and it continues to give you joy, then by all means > make good music for the world!
That’s the key! If you like the gear, and it makes the kinds of sounds that you like (you hear in your head), who cares what anyone else thinks! Make good music. — Juhan Leemet Logicognosis, Inc.
Response:
> Sometimes you want to kill those loud/noisy strummers. > When you go back to > listen to John Lennon, his rhythm guitar was not high up in the mix! > George never had to fight to get himself heard. It’s called teamwork.
John was certainly loud enough in the mix for my taste. > I’m not sure it’s really "planned obsolescence" in the same way as we’ve > accused the automobile markets. Rather, any gear that uses computers is > maximally modifiable, and therefore evolves very quickly. It "just > happens" that succeeding generations are much better than previous ones. > If they had known how, they would have build the perfect one right away, > and cornered the market. It’s not possible or practical.
SOTA for radio electronics currently is something called Software Defined Radios. I think the next step for modelers would be something along those lines for guitar amps, where the end user could modify the parameters in software. Perhaps it’s already being done. Jim Kelley
Response:
>Are you a stay-at-home player, or are you playing out live on stage in clubs >and halls? >While I haven’t had the experience with this Vox amp you allude to, it’s my >sense from playing a lot of the newer stuff and the muddling amps, that they >are toys designed to appeal to stay-at-home guys
Been gigging since 1969 and still gig, when my schedule permits, with three bands. Most of the time I use my Valvetronix 120. Sounds great, is loud enough and has some good feel to it to allow me to do what I need to do. But…YOU "haven’t had the experience with this amp." >The times I’ve heard the muddling amps live on stage at our local open >stages and jams, the muddling amps were laughable and didn’t even come >close to a fair comparison with a good tube amp. They didn’t cut through
Mine cuts fine. Funny, after a set (on more than one occasion) a guitar player or two will come up and say nice AC30. I bring ‘em up for a closer look…they see the digital lights and are shocked. Yeah, it was on the AC30TB setting but they couldn’t tell the difference. Guitar players in their 30s and 40s…who grew up with tube amps. >Finally, the same other guitar player in our band purchased an AC-30 reissue >with the Celestion Blue speakers, and right out of the box it was a >great-sounding combo (those speakers are superb).
I have one of those too now. I also have a 1978 Marshall JMP, I have a Goldtone GA30-RVS, reissue Super Reverb, ‘64 Vibroverb Custom and AC15TBX….use one of three Anderson guitars. Still use my Valvetronix a lot.
Response:
I’m a die hard tube head. I’ve got many many (my wife would add a few more manys here) tube amps, old fenders, gibsons, silvertones, magnatones, blah blah blah. By the way, I mainly record. However, I bought an AD60VT (the 60 watt 1 x 12 sister amp to the AD120VT) when the first came out about 2 years ago. I though I could have access to more effects (I’m not a pedal guy) – I didn’t want a POD and I heard "good" things about the amp. Here’s my overview and how I ended up using it: 1) It cannot and never will sound anywhere as good as any of the amps it is simulating. No way, no how. 2) For some things, it is passable, such as effects laden guitar passages that are not prominent in a mix. Funky, phasy, leslie type of things OK. 3) Its got a great speaker – a celestion – that helps its sound 4) I have had problems – loose solder connections and cabinet construction Overall – When I am recording a "real" guitar part, its one of my other amps that get me there. When I’m feeling "experimental" or looking for some layers or texture or something out of left field, I’ll go to the Vox. Its not the worst amp in the world but I’m not sure exactly what to do with it at times. You may have a better application than I. If I could go back in time, I would save the $800 (with the controller) and spend it on a real good leslie box and/or a delay. Hope that helps, Steve
Response:
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