Transparent rig
Question:
Good Evening and Happy Holidays, Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or the amp will color the mod selections.. Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. Next, I would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and complements the an amp. The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get mic’d.. One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any coaching would be appreciated. Thanks, Danny
Response:
Danny, Colorless amps don’t neccessarily sound all that good with front-end pedals – take my ex-Polytone Taurus II, for example. And then you have the power amp only option with Tech 21’s Power Engine – 60W for $299. Sounded like crap with my Digitech GNX3. I get great OD tone from pedals with my Deluxe Reverb RI amp and it doesn’t even have an effects loop! GReg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Good Evening and Happy Holidays, > Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling > device, some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and > speakers, or the amp will color the mod selections.. > Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling > devices, I thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent > amps and/or amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that > reproduces exactly the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms > of tone etc. Next, I would like to seek some suggestions on speakers > and cab that accomplish or that are designed to provide little or no > coloration of the sound, and complements the an amp. > The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or > head and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff > becasue I get mic’d.. > One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low > quality, for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down > to one or if necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, > BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has > seemed to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. > However, any coaching would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Danny
Response:
I think that "transparent, friendly, OD, modeling" is sort of a quadruple oxymoron. I used a Tech21 GT-2 for the last couple days, which is an analog modeling pedal, that actually does do a somewhat respectable job of getting a good crunch at low levels. The trouble is always about the same with this pedal though. The first day that I use it, I’m really very impressed with it’s sound. But by the second day that I use it, I’m starting to hear all sorts of things I hate about it, and how one dimensional it is, and how it just isn’t as dynamic as a good distortion OD pedal. It would be a good pedal to switch to for certain things, but I only use one pedal at a time. I can’t listen to it all the time, so I’m going back to my ProCo DeuceTone Rat pedal tomorrow. But to someone who uses a pedalboard, a GT-2 would be a great addition. Instant Marshall tones, and it is relatively easy to setup. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Good Evening and Happy Holidays, >Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, >some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or >the amp will color the mod selections.. >Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I >thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or >amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly >the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. Next, I >would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or >that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and >complements the an amp. >The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head >and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get >mic’d.. >One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, >for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if >necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, >BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed >to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any >coaching would be appreciated. >Thanks, >Danny
– Your signature move, is who you are. –Sr. Hasbeena
Response:
> Good Evening and Happy Holidays, > Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, > some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or > the amp will color the mod selections..
True of any of today’s amps with the speakers they include. > Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I > thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or > amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly > the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc.
Well, go to guitar center, take a bunch of these modelling pedals from that department, and walk them and your guitar into the Pro Sound room. Feed one of the channels of their BEST console, through their Best Amps and Best Speakers on display. Now, you will have the transparent system you require to make your selection. > Next, I > would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or > that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and > complements the an amp.
Any box tuned for and with a K-130 JBL in it. > The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head > and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get > mic’d..
Fender Vibroverb, with a K-130 in it. Ampeg Gemini GV-15, with a K-130 in it. > One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, > for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if > necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,,
BOTH, are light weight combos. > BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed > to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any > coaching would be appreciated.
I’m old school. With one well setup tube amp and the right pedals on the floor, what else do you need to present kick ass music from the stage. For me a fuzz face, a Vox wah, and a MXR Micro Amp on either a old Fender or an old Marshall with good speakers, is all that is needed to create the models they put in that box you are interested in. I don’t really see the need for the modelling stuff, when the real deal is still around. What you really have today, is non REAl Deal Players, who NEED the modelling stuff. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
Response:
Dan, my earlier comments were based on my experience of trying to get a wide variety of sounds (wedding / variety / dance band) from my rig. I had previously used a ‘67 Deluxe Reverb with 6 or 8 stomp boxes. The rig sounded great if I was playing a straight "Fender" R&B tune, but we also play jazz, swing, disco, rock, funk – much different sounds. I also didn’t like having to tweak the stomp box knobs every gig. I’m pleased with my current rig (but I’m always looking). I run a Tele into a RP-100 modeler/digifx unit. My amp is a 100 watt, 1-12" speaker Yamaha G100-112 III. I run a line out to the PA. The G100-112 III was a 80’s/90’s Yamaha SS amp. They are built like tanks and are very tubey sounding. I’ve owned or played the 3 different series of these amps (I,II, III). By far, the III is the better sounding amp. The 100 watts is probably overkill for me since I really just use it as a monitor. The 50 watt version is probably all I need (G50-112 III). The III version are the amps with the multicolored knob and the cube shape. The can be picked up for $100-150 used on ebay. Chip L
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Good Evening and Happy Holidays, > Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, > some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or > the amp will color the mod selections.. > Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I > thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or > amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly > the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. Next, I > would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or > that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and > complements the an amp. > The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head > and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get > mic’d.. > One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, > for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if > necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, > BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed > to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any > coaching would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Danny
Response:
Alternatively, for portability, buy an acoustic guitar amp and plug your modeler into it. These acoustic guitar amps are like a mini-PA. Wayne
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Good Evening and Happy Holidays, > Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, > some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or > the amp will color the mod selections.. > True of any of today’s amps with the speakers they include. > Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I > thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or > amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly > the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. > Well, go to guitar center, take a bunch of these modelling pedals from > that department, and walk them and your guitar into the Pro Sound room. > Feed one of the channels of their BEST console, through their Best Amps > and Best Speakers on display. > Now, you will have the transparent system you require to make your > selection. > Next, I > would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or > that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and > complements the an amp. > Any box tuned for and with a K-130 JBL in it. > The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head > and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get > mic’d.. > Fender Vibroverb, with a K-130 in it. > Ampeg Gemini GV-15, with a K-130 in it. > One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, > for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if > necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, > BOTH, are light weight combos. > BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed > to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any > coaching would be appreciated. > I’m old school. With one well setup tube amp and the right pedals on > the floor, what else do you need to present kick ass music from the > stage. > For me a fuzz face, a Vox wah, and a MXR Micro Amp on either a old > Fender or an old Marshall with good speakers, is all that is needed to > create the models they put in that box you are interested in. > I don’t really see the need for the modelling stuff, when the real deal > is still around. > What you really have today, is non REAl Deal Players, who NEED the > modelling stuff. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Good Evening and Happy Holidays, >Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, >some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or >the amp will color the mod selections.. >Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I >thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or >amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly >the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. Next, I >would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or >that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and >complements the an amp. >The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head >and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get >mic’d.. >One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, >for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if >necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, >BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed >to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any >coaching would be appreciated.
Dan, To me, "uncolored" includes the idea of having little or no distortion. To get that you want a fair amount of power. To do that in a tube amp it’s going to get heavy. The people I hear who use modellers live tend to report getting good results by putting the modeller box into the PA, then using a keyboard monitor amp for your own guitar monitor. Doing it that way you have the box and one small SS "combo amp." As I understand it, the Tech 21Power Engine mentioned in another post was designed to do this kind of thing. If you want to use a real combo guitar amp then something like a Rolannd Jazz Chorus, or one of the Yamaha G series amps (as mentioned in another post) is a good candidate. Those Yamaha amps can often be found for cheap (the reason I never sold mine is because I thought it was worth more than anyone is willing to pay for it). If you really want a small tube amp that will stay relatively clean then Rich’s Ampeg suggestion is good because the Ampegs made in the 60s (especially the blue ones) were designed for jazz by a guy who thought amps should be clean. Good luck, -Scott McKnight
Response:
Thanks folks.. These ideas are not only very logical but cool too! thanks, Danny
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Good Evening and Happy Holidays, >Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, >some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or >the amp will color the mod selections.. >Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I >thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or >amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly >the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. Next, I >would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or >that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and >complements the an amp. >The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head >and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get >mic’d.. >One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, >for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if >necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, >BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed >to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any >coaching would be appreciated. > Dan, > To me, "uncolored" includes the idea of having little or no > distortion. To get that you want a fair amount of power. To do that > in a tube amp it’s going to get heavy. The people I hear who use > modellers live tend to report getting good results by putting the > modeller box into the PA, then using a keyboard monitor amp for your > own guitar monitor. Doing it that way you have the box and one small > SS "combo amp." As I understand it, the Tech 21Power Engine mentioned > in another post was designed to do this kind of thing. > If you want to use a real combo guitar amp then something like a > Rolannd Jazz Chorus, or one of the Yamaha G series amps (as mentioned > in another post) is a good candidate. Those Yamaha amps can often be > found for cheap (the reason I never sold mine is because I thought it > was worth more than anyone is willing to pay for it). > If you really want a small tube amp that will stay relatively clean > then Rich’s Ampeg suggestion is good because the Ampegs made in the > 60s (especially the blue ones) were designed for jazz by a guy who > thought amps should be clean. > Good luck, > -Scott McKnight
Response:
Rich, As usual.. very pricise and informative, Thanks, Danny
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Good Evening and Happy Holidays, > Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling device, > some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, or > the amp will color the mod selections.. > True of any of today’s amps with the speakers they include. > Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling devices, I > thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or > amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces exactly > the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. > Well, go to guitar center, take a bunch of these modelling pedals from > that department, and walk them and your guitar into the Pro Sound room. > Feed one of the channels of their BEST console, through their Best Amps > and Best Speakers on display. > Now, you will have the transparent system you require to make your > selection. > Next, I > would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish or > that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and > complements the an amp. > Any box tuned for and with a K-130 JBL in it. > The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or head > and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I get > mic’d.. > Fender Vibroverb, with a K-130 in it. > Ampeg Gemini GV-15, with a K-130 in it. > One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low quality, > for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if > necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, > BOTH, are light weight combos. > BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has seemed > to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any > coaching would be appreciated. > I’m old school. With one well setup tube amp and the right pedals on > the floor, what else do you need to present kick ass music from the > stage. > For me a fuzz face, a Vox wah, and a MXR Micro Amp on either a old > Fender or an old Marshall with good speakers, is all that is needed to > create the models they put in that box you are interested in. > I don’t really see the need for the modelling stuff, when the real deal > is still around. > What you really have today, is non REAl Deal Players, who NEED the > modelling stuff. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
Response:
> Rich, > As usual.. very pricise and informative, > Thanks, > Danny
Heh heh, …. Mr. Koerner is ALWAYS very precise and informative. ……. rarely transparent though. ;^) dw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Good Evening and Happy Holidays, >>Placing and earlier inquiry on using a tube friendly OD modelling > device, >>some respondents talked about using very transparent amps and speakers, > or >>the amp will color the mod selections.. >True of any of today’s amps with the speakers they include. >>Well then, that being said, and still having a need OD modelling > devices, I >>thought I should seek the groups’ opinion of transparent amps and/or >>amplifiers.. Transparent being an amp suggestion that reproduces > exactly >>the sound your guitar delivers to the amp in terms of tone etc. >Well, go to guitar center, take a bunch of these modelling pedals from >that department, and walk them and your guitar into the Pro Sound room. >Feed one of the channels of their BEST console, through their Best Amps >and Best Speakers on display. >Now, you will have the transparent system you require to make your >selection. >>Next, I >>would like to seek some suggestions on speakers and cab that accomplish > or >>that are designed to provide little or no coloration of the sound, and >>complements the an amp. >Any box tuned for and with a K-130 JBL in it. >>The information would be helpful if the recomendations are combos or > head >>and cabs.. and low wattage is not an isssue for tube stuff becasue I > get >>mic’d.. >Fender Vibroverb, with a K-130 in it. >Ampeg Gemini GV-15, with a K-130 in it. >>One criteria is that I need portability, i.e. light but not low > quality, >>for an old dude who would like to keep the whole thing down to one or if >>necessary two trips into the gig,,,,,, >BOTH, are light weight combos. >>BTW , other folks have mentioned getting back to rack stuff as it has > seemed >>to fallen into the less preferred method these days.. However, any >>coaching would be appreciated. >I’m old school. With one well setup tube amp and the right pedals on >the floor, what else do you need to present kick ass music from the >stage. >For me a fuzz face, a Vox wah, and a MXR Micro Amp on either a old >Fender or an old Marshall with good speakers, is all that is needed to >create the models they put in that box you are interested in. >I don’t really see the need for the modelling stuff, when the real deal >is still around. >What you really have today, is non REAl Deal Players, who NEED the >modelling stuff. >Regards, >Rich Koerner, >Time Electronics. >http://www.timeelect.com >Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, >Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
Response:
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