THE WORST SOUNDING AMP AWARD GOES TO….???
Question:
Some years ago when I played professionally, our band would get together on Sunday nights to hit a few of the local jam sessions (good way to pick up gigs). We traveled light, usually playing whatever was available on stage. Out of common courtesy, we took our own guitars of course. At one club, I was last to the stage and the singer/rhythm/harp player staked out a friends nice Fender Twin, but I got stuck with the other guitar players backup since his Marshall had failed him. It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. Just like this one on eBAy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=891015203 Someone paid $36 dollars for that one, and I think they got robbed ;=]. Absolutely the worst sounding POS imaginable! I suffered through two songs and called the audience for a replacement player (I’d had enough)! Let’s hear YOUR horror stories ;=]. John King
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Some years ago when I played professionally, our band >would get together on Sunday nights to hit a few of the >local jam sessions (good way to pick up gigs). >We traveled light, usually playing whatever was available >on stage. Out of common courtesy, we took our own guitars >of course. >At one club, I was last to the stage and the singer/rhythm/harp >player staked out a friends nice Fender Twin, but I got stuck >with the other guitar players backup since his Marshall had failed >him. It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. >Just like this one on eBAy: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=891015203 >Someone paid $36 dollars for that one, and I think they >got robbed ;=]. >Absolutely the worst sounding POS imaginable! I suffered >through two songs and called the audience for a replacement >player (I’d had enough)! >Let’s hear YOUR horror stories ;=]. >John King
I remember those Crates. That’s the way their cabinets were when I first noticed them showing up years ago. And the guy with the auction said "Enclosed in a customized wooden frame". WTF? Customized?? That’s still what I see in my mind when people mention Crates. A product that the company didn’t even have enough respect for to give it a good enclosure. There *is* a place for cheap amps like that, and it’s in the bedroom of someone who needs a cheap first amp and can’t tell the difference between good and bad, but they don’t belong on a stage. A bonfire, yes, but a stage, no. Pete
Response:
> It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. >Just like this one on eBAy: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=891015203 >Someone paid $36 dollars for that one, and I think they >got robbed ;=]. >Absolutely the worst sounding POS imaginable! I suffered >through two songs and called the audience for a replacement >player (I’d had enough)! >Let’s hear YOUR horror stories ;=].
Ya want horror. You just THINK you want the horror. This is horror Col. Kurtz style old-school horror. There is one of those in the shop right now, just came in Friday, for me to FIX. Ron Honestly, that isn’t so bad, I just have to work on it, not be seen playing it.
Response:
>It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. >Absolutely the worst sounding POS imaginable! I suffered >through two songs and called the audience for a replacement >player (I’d had enough)!
Oh John, you gonna let a deal like that run you off? Could be worse, could have been a Mesa. 
— Dr. Nuketopia Spam filtering is off. AO-Hell catches most of it now.
Response:
>Oh John, you gonna let a deal like that run you off? >Could be worse, could have been a Mesa. >;-) >– >Dr. Nuketopia >Spam filtering is off. AO-Hell catches most of it now.
I actualy tried to play harp for a whole night through a borrowed Jordan amp (SS, 2 x15" speakers, and a horn). I don’t recall anything ever sounding worse than that! Mike Lynch
Response:
Hammond Innovex "Condor" guitar system. Had a console on a pedestal, looked like a lectern. Had two *enormous* powered cabinets, each had (I think) a 15" and a horn or two. Featured "synth" settings for distortion (*horrible* – sounded like a chainsaw inside a Quonset hut) and pitch effects like vibrato (sounded like Leslie with one power tube missing, being played underwater) and an octave setting that wouldn’t track worth a damn. Had a tremelo effect called "room rocker" that alternated the cabinets with an incredibly hard-edged envelope (sounded a lot like the Vox "repeat percussion" effect, only harder); thirty seconds worth of "room rocker" was *guaranteed* to produce a headache. The only thing halfway decent on it was the reverb. A genuine PUKER! Lord Valve Yuck!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Oh John, you gonna let a deal like that run you off? >Could be worse, could have been a Mesa. >;-) >– >Dr. Nuketopia >Spam filtering is off. AO-Hell catches most of it now. > I actualy tried to play harp for a whole night through a borrowed Jordan amp > (SS, 2 x15" speakers, and a horn). I don’t recall anything ever sounding worse > than that! > Mike Lynch
Charlie Byrd had a Jordan amp that was shaped like a cylinder – it had a single 12" that fired at the floor from the bottom of the tube, and the top had a seat on it like a drum throne, so that the guitarist could sit on it while playing. A sort of amplified hassock, as it were. I could be wrong about the brand – it mighta been a Baldwin, come to think of it. Didn’t sound all that bad, but then – it was Charlie Byrd. ;-) Lord Valve American
Response:
> ….. him. It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. > Just like this one on eBAy: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=891015203 > John King
Is there any chance that the first amps they made were made from a shipping _Crate_? Like they wanted to make the most affordable amp ever or something? Were these heaps really really cheap and marketed to be ultra affordable? I’m probably way off… but curious enough to ask anyway. Matt
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hammond Innovex "Condor" guitar system. Had a console >on a pedestal, looked like a lectern. Had two *enormous* >powered cabinets, each had (I think) a 15" and a horn or >two. Featured "synth" settings for distortion (*horrible* – >sounded like a chainsaw inside a Quonset hut) and pitch >effects like vibrato (sounded like Leslie with one power tube >missing, being played underwater) and an octave setting >that wouldn’t track worth a damn. Had a tremelo effect >called "room rocker" that alternated the cabinets with an >incredibly hard-edged envelope (sounded a lot like the >Vox "repeat percussion" effect, only harder); thirty seconds >worth of "room rocker" was *guaranteed* to produce a >headache. The only thing halfway decent on it was the >reverb. A genuine PUKER! >Lord Valve >Yuck!
I’ll never forget the guy in FL who bought the whole mess of them when ‘Condor’ went under. He offered them to me for $25 ea, and I turned him down. For guitar, they sucked big time, but the reed/horn model was a nice toy. No cabs were available..I think the cabs were dropped rather quickly by HI. Remember, this was the groovy music years, baby.. He sent me a set of schematics to check them out, and one guitar sample. While I do regret NOT buying a few for tinker-toys, I couldn’t get anything of a workable sound out of it. I sent it back, kept the schematics, and moved on. While we’re on the subject of crappy amps, here’s a few: AIMS EMC EARTH (Peavey clones, for crying out loud! PCBs said PV on em !) Jordon Plush (same co as Earth) Sunn Beta lead (puke!) GBX (anyone got info on this brand?) Orbit (anyone got info on this brand?) Hyland Teneyck SS Magnatone SS Standel SS RMI (as in the piano people) Gibson ‘SG’ series And the beat goes on…yeah, da beat goes on.. J Tash
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ….. him. It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. > Just like this one on eBAy: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=891015203 > John King > Is there any chance that the first amps they made were made from a shipping > _Crate_? > Like they wanted to make the most affordable amp ever or something? > Were these heaps really really cheap and marketed to be ultra affordable? > I’m probably way off… but curious enough to ask anyway. > Matt
Yep Matt, I heard that early concepts were actually built from fruit crate material and they were very low budget marketed by the same people that make them now, SLM (St.Louis Music). John King
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. >Just like this one on eBAy: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=891015203 >Someone paid $36 dollars for that one, and I think they >got robbed ;=]. >Absolutely the worst sounding POS imaginable! I suffered >through two songs and called the audience for a replacement >player (I’d had enough)! >Let’s hear YOUR horror stories ;=]. > Ya want horror. You just THINK you want the horror. This is horror > Col. Kurtz style old-school horror. > There is one of those in the shop right now, just came in Friday, for > me to FIX. > Ron > Honestly, that isn’t so bad, I just have to work on it, not be seen > playing it.
Ron how do you justify the ticket on an amp that’s worth less than the repair bill? John King
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. >Absolutely the worst sounding POS imaginable! I suffered >through two songs and called the audience for a replacement >player (I’d had enough)! > Oh John, you gonna let a deal like that run you off? > Could be worse, could have been a Mesa. > > — > Dr. Nuketopia > Spam filtering is off. AO-Hell catches most of it now.
Indeed, one of the next most miserable nights I spent on stage was with a Mesa Studio 22. Since It was supposed to be such a hot shit amp, and it sounded good at the house (no rehearsal) I took it to a Friday night gig without a backup. I was stuck in a frustrating battle of knob twisting all night. You can bet I had the trusty Peavey back with me Saturday night. (What’s this you say??? a Peavey over a Mesa?? YOU HEARD ME RIGHT!) It was a Moose Lodge gig, and I had to be able to jump from "Suzie Q" to "Beer Barrel Polka" to "Good Hearted Woman" in a single set, and the Mesa just wasn’t (versatile) up to the task. (Sorry folks, I’ve probably told that story here before.) John King (NOT a Polka King) So… to me, Mesa rates right down there with Crate. (One Trick pony.) And I’m the type that is, once bitten, twice shy.
Response:
|Charlie Byrd had a Jordan amp that was shaped like a |cylinder – it had a single 12" that fired at the floor from |the bottom of the tube, and the top had a seat on it like |a drum throne, so that the guitarist could sit on it while |playing. A sort of amplified hassock, as it were. Sounds ike cheap thrills to me… 8^)
Response:
|Is there any chance that the first amps they made were made from a shipping |_Crate_? |Like they wanted to make the most affordable amp ever or something? |Were these heaps really really cheap and marketed to be ultra affordable? | |I’m probably way off… but curious enough to ask anyway. Actually, you’re right on. They were meant to be cheap, and the originals were in real crates. Don’t know if any production amps were in real crates, but the prototypes were. And the floor models were still made as cheaply as possible. The idea was low end of low end. Anyone recall "Stage" brand amps around 1978 or so? Looked like little Fenders. Cheap, buzzy little things. But affordable…
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hammond Innovex "Condor" guitar system. Had a console >on a pedestal, looked like a lectern. Had two *enormous* >powered cabinets, each had (I think) a 15" and a horn or >two. Featured "synth" settings for distortion (*horrible* – >sounded like a chainsaw inside a Quonset hut) and pitch >effects like vibrato (sounded like Leslie with one power tube >missing, being played underwater) and an octave setting >that wouldn’t track worth a damn. Had a tremelo effect >called "room rocker" that alternated the cabinets with an >incredibly hard-edged envelope (sounded a lot like the >Vox "repeat percussion" effect, only harder); thirty seconds >worth of "room rocker" was *guaranteed* to produce a >headache. The only thing halfway decent on it was the >reverb. A genuine PUKER! >Lord Valve >Yuck! > I’ll never forget the guy in FL who bought the whole mess > of them when ‘Condor’ went under. He offered them to me > for $25 ea, and I turned him down. For guitar, they sucked > big time, but the reed/horn model was a nice toy. No cabs > were available..I think the cabs were dropped rather quickly > by HI. Remember, this was the groovy music years, baby.. > He sent me a set of schematics to check them out, and one > guitar sample. While I do regret NOT buying a few for > tinker-toys, I couldn’t get anything of a workable sound out > of it. I sent it back, kept the schematics, and moved on. > While we’re on the subject of crappy amps, here’s a few: > AIMS
Actually, some of the Aims stuff was pretty good. > EMC
POO! > EARTH (Peavey clones, for crying out loud! PCBs said PV on em !)
Hated ‘em. > Jordon
Barf… > Plush (same co as Earth)
One or two of the Dual Showman-ish tube heads were OK. > Sunn Beta lead (puke!)
Hideous. Early C-MOS technology. Crapped out with*great* regularity. > GBX (anyone got info on this brand?)
Never heard of ‘em. > Orbit (anyone got info on this brand?)
I thought this was a Leslie-type spinning top-horn thingy.No? Or am I thinking of that Traynor "Revo" thing… > Hyland
What? > Teneyck
Who? > SS Magnatone
Damn – didn’t know there *were* any! Got URL for pics? > SS Standel
Some country pickers still swear by ‘em. > SS RMI (as in the piano people)
EEEEEEEEEEWWWWWW!!!! Gak! > Gibson ‘SG’ series
*Very* strange circuits. SS preamp ran on negvoltage, tied to the bias supply, made it very hard to mod the O/P stage for different power tubes when 8417s got scarce. One of the earliest amps to have a phase-shifter on board, as I recall. LV
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there any chance that the first amps they made were made from a shipping > _Crate_? > Like they wanted to make the most affordable amp ever or something? > Were these heaps really really cheap and marketed to be ultra affordable? > I’m probably way off… but curious enough to ask anyway. > Matt > Yep Matt, > I heard that early concepts were actually built > from fruit crate material and they were very low budget > marketed by the same people that make them now, > SLM (St.Louis Music). > John King
Aha! :) Has Crate ever made a good amp? I’ve seen it said here (long time ago) that Mark Knopfler used a VC30 or something "____30" and it sounded great? Matt
Response:
Maybe, but I played through a Mesa DC-something head at a Sam Ash and I thought the sound was unbelievable. If I had the money, I would’ve bought it right there and then. I just can’t remember the model, it was a small head. But then again, I too value versatility, which is why my rig is all rack mount and midi controlled. The worst amp is a Peavey Envoy my brother-in-law gave me - no bass or balls whatsoever. it’d be okay for George Benson or Wes Montgomery type clean, I guess, but rock ? What garbage. Oh, and Gorilla.. they gotta rate down there with the worst. — ..Cybrchndriac..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >It was one of those old wooden box Crates from the 80’s. > >Absolutely the worst sounding POS imaginable! I suffered > >through two songs and called the audience for a replacement > >player (I’d had enough)! > Oh John, you gonna let a deal like that run you off? > Could be worse, could have been a Mesa. > > — > Dr. Nuketopia > Spam filtering is off. AO-Hell catches most of it now. > Indeed, one of the next most miserable nights I spent on stage > was with a Mesa Studio 22. Since It was supposed to be such > a hot shit amp, and it sounded good at the house (no rehearsal) > I took it to a Friday night gig without a backup. I was stuck in > a frustrating battle of knob twisting all night. > You can bet I had the trusty Peavey back with me Saturday night. > (What’s this you say??? a Peavey over a Mesa?? YOU HEARD ME RIGHT!) > It was a Moose Lodge gig, and I had to be able to jump from > "Suzie Q" to "Beer Barrel Polka" to "Good Hearted Woman" in a single > set, and the Mesa just wasn’t (versatile) up to the task. > (Sorry folks, I’ve probably told that story here before.) > John King > (NOT a Polka King) > So… to me, Mesa rates right down there with Crate. (One Trick pony.) > And I’m the type that is, once bitten, twice shy.
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>> Teneyck >Who?
According to the Hopkins and Moore Ampeg book, Bob Teneyck was a designer at Ampeg responsible for development of the Gemini series and patent holder for Ampeg’s tremolo and vibrato designs. After he left Ampeg he made Teneyck amps which were sold through Mid-Eastern Industries, Asbury Park, NJ. These were all SS, included larger amps for pros, practice amps and PAs. Some used Ampeg-like trem and vibratos. -Scott McKnight
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>Has Crate ever made a good amp? >I’ve seen it said here (long time ago) that Mark Knopfler used a VC30 or >something "____30" and it sounded great? >Matt
I’ve heard others say that those aren’t half bad. As far as it sounding great when Mark Knopfler played it, well, it *was* Mark Knopfler afterall. :) Whether or not the early Crates were made using real Crates it seems to me they came out at a time when a lot of people were using crates in the manufacture of other things. I seem to remember entire stores full of new furniture made from crates. I guess that made the idea of putting a guitar amp in a crate a litle more acceptable than it might seem now. -Scott McKnight
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Has Crate ever made a good amp? >I’ve seen it said here (long time ago) that Mark Knopfler used a VC30 or >something "____30" and it sounded great? >Matt > I’ve heard others say that those aren’t half bad. As far as it > sounding great when Mark Knopfler played it, well, it *was* Mark > Knopfler afterall. :) > Whether or not the early Crates were made using real Crates it seems > to me they came out at a time when a lot of people were using crates > in the manufacture of other things. I seem to remember entire stores > full of new furniture made from crates. I guess that made the idea of > putting a guitar amp in a crate a litle more acceptable than it might > seem now. > -Scott McKnight
Yeah, Scott Colborn and a couple of other people here have suggested that some of the Crate VC (Vintage Club) series are respectable sounding amps. I would be surprised if they don’t suffer the same poor solder joint malady as most other Crates though. FWIW, I do have a Crate keyboard amp that I’ve used for many years, and I like the way it sounds used as a keyboard/mini PA/ acoustic guitar amp. It ten years or so, I’ve had to go in and solder a couple of resistors that popped loose from the board. John King
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > |Is there any chance that the first amps they made were made from a shipping > |_Crate_? > |Like they wanted to make the most affordable amp ever or something? > |Were these heaps really really cheap and marketed to be ultra affordable? > | > |I’m probably way off… but curious enough to ask anyway. > Actually, you’re right on. They were meant to > be cheap, and the originals were in real crates. > Don’t know if any production amps were in real > crates, but the prototypes were. And the floor > models were still made as cheaply as possible. > The idea was low end of low end. > Anyone recall "Stage" brand amps around 1978 or > so? Looked like little Fenders. Cheap, buzzy > little things. But affordable…
Hey Miles, "Stage" was one of the last names used by the Univox outfit right before they were bought out. There guitars changed names to "Westbury" too. IIRC the guitars from their last years were much better than the amps. Korg partnered up with Univox in the late 70’s and then bought them out in the 80’s. (I wonder if this is what will eventually happen to Marshall too?) John King
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> A sort of amplified hassock, as it were. >Sounds ike cheap thrills to me… 8^)
There’s a *reason* I always let ladies sit on my bass amps.
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> Charlie Byrd had a Jordan amp that was shaped like a > cylinder – it had a single 12" that fired at the floor from > the bottom of the tube, and the top had a seat on it like > a drum throne, so that the guitarist could sit on it while > playing. A sort of amplified hassock, as it were. I could > be wrong about the brand – it mighta been a Baldwin, > come to think of it. Didn’t sound all that bad, but then – > it was Charlie Byrd. ;-) > Lord Valve > American
I’ve seen pictures of that amp somewhere. Since I have a liking for strange and unusual things it caught my attention. I almost bought an "amp in briefcase" thing that went through eBay a while back. Japanese thingy marketed by the company that sold the "Norma" guitars. (Even amongst the Teisco type cheese-o guitars, Norma’s were particularly bad (at least the ones I came across). John King
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<Big Snip> > Sunn Beta lead (puke!) > Hideous. Early C-MOS technology. Crapped out with*great* regularity.
A Sunn Beta series combo (with the cross firing 12" speakers) wins the award as the amp I witnessed stay longest in a pawnshop. A friend of mine traded it to them in the mid 80’s and it sat gathering dust for *at least* the next 10 YEARS! > SS Standel > Some country pickers still swear by ‘em.
Yeah, If you can find the right model of Standel that included either their proprietary 15" or the 15" JBL, some country / steel guitar players love ‘em. (Good $$$ for them too!) > Gibson ‘SG’ series > *Very* strange circuits. SS preamp ran on negvoltage, tied to the bias > supply, made it very hard to > mod the O/P stage for different power tubes when > 8417s got scarce. One of the earliest amps to have > a phase-shifter on board, as I recall. > LV
Thanks for the warning about the unusual circuitry! I’ve seen a lot of these old *somewhere* California made Gibson SG series amps around, and though they used to be pawnshop dawgs, I see people actually taking an interest in them now (go figure). I’ve seen a couple of models that supposedly used 6L6’s but I’ve never seen inside one. The cabinets are built like an ATA case and look nearly indestructible. Even more oldies: ROAD – amps and PA’s (another one built into ATA type case). GEM – (I recently picked one of these up for cheap, as it looked like a good donor cab and chassis for a project.) Mitchell – I had one or these oak and cane boutique Boogie clones back in the 80’s. 7025’s, 6L6’s, graphic EQ, effects loop and Celestion speaker. *Should* have been a killer amp, but it was only OK. Too many complications in the circuitry prevented the good tone from getting through. (Sometimes simple IS better!) John King
Response:
>> > Sunn Beta lead (puke!) > Hideous. Early C-MOS technology. Crapped out with*great* regularity. >A Sunn Beta series combo (with the cross firing 12" speakers) >wins the award as the amp I witnessed stay longest in a pawnshop. >A friend of mine traded it to them in the mid 80’s and it sat >gathering dust for *at least* the next 10 YEARS!
yup…pure badly designed shit. Some fool looked at one of Craig Anderson’s circuits and thought he/she could make an amp. WRONG-O In the old days, I fixed some poor sod’s Beta Lead head, and it took months to get a straight answer out of Sunn. In the long run, a tech there told me, and I quote, : "FUCK IT" and Sunn replaced it with a brand new amp.. > > SS Standel > Some country pickers still swear by ‘em. >Yeah, If you can find the right model of Standel that included >either their proprietary 15" or the 15" JBL, some country / >steel guitar players love ‘em. (Good $$$ for them too!)
yeah, but most ya see now a days have NO JBLs in them and they are puke otherwise. I got, somewhere, a version on a stand, with 2 other 1-15" (used to be JBL, now empty) cabs..one on TOP of the stands..the flocking thing would NOT stay put, always falling down. Bought it for $50..with JBLs > > Gibson ‘SG’ series > *Very* strange circuits. SS preamp ran on negvoltage, tied to the bias > supply, made it very hard to > mod the O/P stage for different power tubes when > 8417s got scarce. One of the earliest amps to have > a phase-shifter on board, as I recall. > LV
Gibson, in the olden days, has to win the prize for best designed, poorly built and marketed, amps. These dogs had a covering that looked like old blue jeans. But ya could get a good sound out of them for about 30 mins before they overheated and died. >Thanks for the warning about the unusual circuitry! >I’ve seen a lot of these old *somewhere* California made
I wonder if it was the same folks who built the 1st ‘Goldtone’ Gibson amps, now long gone.. hmmmmmmmmmmmm…. >Gibson SG series amps around, and though they used to be >pawnshop dawgs, I see people actually taking an interest >in them now (go figure). I’ve seen a couple of models that >supposedly used 6L6’s but I’ve never seen inside one. >The cabinets are built like an ATA case and look nearly >indestructible.
They were not..hehehehehe >Even more oldies: >ROAD – amps and PA’s (another one built into ATA type case).
I think they ’slept’ with Kustom on those designs..pure crap.. >GEM – (I recently picked one of these up for cheap, as it looked > like a good donor cab and chassis for a project.)
A great project amp, for sure, nothing more… >Mitchell – I had one or these oak and cane boutique Boogie clones > back in the 80’s. > 7025’s, 6L6’s, graphic EQ, effects loop and Celestion > speaker. > *Should* have been a killer amp, but it was only OK. > Too many complications in the circuitry prevented the > good tone from getting through. (Sometimes simple IS > better!)
fur sure… J Tash
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